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07/14/14 03:21 PM #146    


Maureen Reynolds Clark

So Fred, you are saying we should adopt your Boiling Frog Theory.  Well, before Socialism destroys this country, for the sake of the next generation, I prefer to leap out.  


07/14/14 08:38 PM #147    


Phillip Mathewson

Fred,  it has never been easy to adapt to tyranny.  Taking freedoms away from people has never created a successful society.  And I don't think it ever will.  Do you?  If so, how?

07/14/14 09:29 PM #148    

Joseph Atchison

David ,I'm happy for you that you have achieved so much in your lifetime,and also happy for your childrens successes. But, you can say goodbye to such successes for your grandchildren if the Socialistic form of Government that we now have in the White House were to continue.  Thank God it won't, because it can't ,not in this country of ours,where it takes more than a pen and a cell phone to govern.   I'm sorry for you that you have been turned away from the truths that are so self evident. Your efforts to sell your ideas would best be served in a country such as Cuba ,Oh so sorry, they already have been.

Respectfully disagreeing  ,Joe Atchison

07/15/14 06:58 AM #149    

Thomas Opferman

Sooo many people drinking the Lemonade!  Maybe we should join the ones trying to get into Cuba and Venezuela and get it over with?


Tom Opferman



07/15/14 07:05 AM #150    

Nancy Sherbondy Havlik

Providing adequate medical care for all Americans is hardly Socialism!!  76% of REPUBLICANS are now pleased with their medical coverage under Obamacare.  Notice how potential Republican candidates have stopped complaining about the new health care law.  Of course we can all be very sanctimous about the law since we have Medicare which was also challenged initially.

Nancy Havlik

07/15/14 09:03 AM #151    

Carolyn Moore Newberger

Redistribution of wealth is not necessarily socialism, because it can go in different directions.  In this country, the redistribution of wealth in the past several years has been in the direction of greater income inequality rather than socialism.  The wealthiest Americans are increasing their percentage of the nation's wealth, while the percentage of Americans in poverty is increasing, creating a widening gap between rich and poor.  This is fact, not ideology.  

07/15/14 12:14 PM #152    


Phillip Mathewson

Any time a government forcibly takes property from one person and gives it to another is Socialism.

07/15/14 12:40 PM #153    

Nancy Sherbondy Havlik

Not really.

07/19/14 08:56 AM #154    

Magdaline Conomos Balsley

In a nutshell.

07/20/14 02:09 PM #155    


Phillip Mathewson

Nancy, Providing adequate medical care for all Americans is Socialism!!  It is taking property (money) from one person and giving it to another.  That is not the job of our government.  The job of our government is to protect U.S. citizens from enemy's abroad and within our country.  See the United States Consiitution and the Bill of Rights as my reference please.

07/20/14 02:15 PM #156    


Phillip Mathewson

Magdaline, what economic, scientific, political, or inovative contributions did the "Hippies" EVER make to society? 

07/20/14 04:30 PM #157    

Joseph Atchison

 As far as I know few "Hippies" have held true to their cause which proclaimed that Peace, Free Love and communal living were the answer for dropping out of society rather than being responsible and contributing to it's betterment.

Now for those who showered,cut their hair and sobered up,and are now liberal progressives and enjoying the current state of affairs in Washington, I have a message for you. Get ready for a disappointing mid term election result,followed by a return to sanity led by a conservative establishment. You and too many others made the wrong choice in the 2012 election which will be ,must be, reversed in 2016.  God Loves you. Joe A.

07/20/14 06:03 PM #158    

Phil Gottschall

To David Ross:  You raised 4 interesting questions which I answer as follows:  1  My fundamental views have not changed since high chool in that I was a strict constitutionalist then and now.  I supported Truman's firing MacArther (who was probably right militarily) but should not have challenged the President - who was wrong to call the Korean War a "police action" and not getting Congress to declare war.  Bush was probably wrong on Iraq, but he did get Congress (notably Kerry and Hillary) to authorize the use of force.  The President cannot vote "present" as he did in Illinois and does not have the Constitutional right or power to change duly enacted laws - or just ignore them.

     2.  I, and according to the polls, most people think that on many (but certainly not all) fronts things are getting worse.  In spite of (or because of) the effort to "fundamentally change" the U.S., the economy is drifting at best with  a lowered % of the working population in full time employment.  Moreover, Obama's foreign policy has frustrated our friends and energized our enemies.  Yes, I believe there are evil people with military force who are our enemies.

     3.  My quality of life has been generally the same as my parents, but we all came from a generally upper middle class background.

     4.  I am doing what  I wanted to do in retirement - because I did not like what I saw in the political, corporate and social world.  Accordingly, I did a modified "John Galt" and retired at 50!  Economically I am concerned that a continuation of the dramatic growth in debt will cause rampant inflation.

         In short, I started as a Democrat supporting H.S. Truman and Adlai Stevenson, but at Harvard (and with the election of JFK) I could no longer support what the "elite" Democrats were advocatihg.  I supported Barry Goldwater - who was described by an "elite" Harvard law prof. as only being different from the Nazis because he didn't wear "jackboots".

         I am proud of the US and don't sell America short - only the politicians and too many corporate executives.  We are a truly exceptional country - notwithstanding the view of the President and his wife - but I do take note of trend lines.  America's current trend lines lean to sell rather than buy -- but they can be reversed.  Phil Gottschall

07/26/14 09:18 PM #159    


Phillip Mathewson



I think you nailed it.  I personally believe that charity should be voluntary and should be handled at the local lever.  Who knows more about a person's needs, the federal government or the local churches, charities, and neighbors?  I derive much more satisfaction giving to local people in need than I do sending a check to Washington D. C. where most of it is spent on cocktail parties.  Just my opinion...

07/27/14 06:36 PM #160    

Thomas A. Beardshall

Like some of the other commentors, I have been a life-long Republican (although I should state up front that I am more of a Rockefeller/Schweiker/Specter Republican than a Goldwater/Tea Party Republican).   

But, to get to the current situation, I would like to make the following observations:

1. Playing "Chicken Little" is an addictivie game.  Saying "Oh my God, the sky is about to fall"  gives you a sense of  focus and direction and purpose in life and enough stress to provide a constant adrenaline rush.  It provides you with justification for a sense of righteous indignation about the way the world is heading,  and tends to lead to ignoring the realities of the world around you.  I get a steady diet of this from a close relative, who is politically somewhat to the right of Atilla the Hun and collects survivalist food supplies and guns in preparation against immanent disaster.  The fact is that for much of our adult lives we have been bombarded with predictions of disasters which have not happened.  Generally, we manage to keep on muddling through. Try reading up on ancient Greek literature, which describes some of the earliest politicians who believed that the world was going to pot, a drumbeat of pending disaster which has gone on continuously ever since.

2. This is embarrassing for a Republican to admit, but it was at the eighth year of a Republican administration that we experienced the biggest financial crash of our lifetimes---a crash which could have been bigger than the 1929-1933 crash if the government had not been a little more adept at jumping in to counter the unfolding disaster.  The Republican de-regulation of the banking industry allowed the banking world to make some really dumb moves that almost wrecked our world. 

3. Whether we like Barak Obama, or not, these are some basic facts of his tenure:

--A. He inherited one of the biggest financial messes of any recent president.

--B. The standard economic indicators have shown that the economy has been on a relatively steady path of improvement during his administration ( not as fast as we would like, but nonetheless improvement.)

--C. Unemployment, which went through the roof at the end of the last Republican administration, has been steadily going down (again, not as fast as we might wish ).

--D. The stock market, one of the primary indicators of the soundness of the economy, has generally gone up during the Obama administration, and is currently setting new all-time record highs.

--E. If I am the one who spilled the milk, how justified am I in spending all of my time criticizing how fast someone else is doing at cleaning up my mess ?

Face up to it folks.  We Republicans created the biggest mess of the past decade, and putting on blinders and playing Chicken Little isn't going to change that.  Fortunately, Americans have a pretty good track record of pulling up their socks and slogging through the problems that come along, and will probably continue to do so, and we will all survive through into the next generation ( which will probably create new disasters, and will survive them also ).

To me the most worrisome thing about our current world is the degree of self-rrighteous certainty with which so many are proclaiming their philosphies. The increasing extremity and rigidity of our political polarization is hindering our ability to arrive at solutions to our problems.  How about we all try to develope a little more balance in our outlooks on life ? (Maybe even a little bit of healthy self-doubt ?)  Are we willing to stop using phantom disasters to justify our self-righteous indignation ?  Can we recognize that we share a common set of goals with the rest of humanity ?  Maybe, someday, could we even become bold enough to experiment with practicing the principles of Christianity ?     ( Even though, I admit, this is something which has never been tried before. )


07/28/14 03:04 PM #161    

William Durkin

I don't know how this chat site came to be, but it's good fun. How about this -

Have we become the stereotypical retirees The Onion enjoys?

  • Sitting in our robe and slippers being driven mad by FOX news
  • Terrified by dog-whistle politicians using “socialist”  as code for those who might be after our easily gotten gains
  • Forgetting that when we came of age almost any degree guaranteed you a job, paid for medical benefits were a given, US Steel was king and globalization was a one way street.
  • Holed up in our 55+ bunkers so that we won’t have to confront hell-raising children like we inflicted on our neighbors back in the day.
  • Knowing we can comfortably run up a tab on our no – questions – asked Medicare insurance because it will be paid by our grandchildren (who can deal with bankrupting health care costs on their own).
  •  Fighting tooth and nail to prevent any such universal coverage for our kids and theirs.
  • The times they are a-changing (or have changed).

07/29/14 08:42 AM #162    

Nancy Sherbondy Havlik

Well said!!


07/29/14 10:23 AM #163    

Judy Button Louis

Very Good.  

07/30/14 09:15 AM #164    

Ruth Ann Lorenzato Sasser

Well said by Tom Beardshall.  Always a good thing to give credit where credit is due is spite of ones' political view.  Whatever happened to politicians extending their thinking  "across the aisle"?


07/30/14 10:35 AM #165    

William Kress

Thank you Tom Beardshall. It was refreshing to read your analysis.

07/30/14 12:33 PM #166    


Fred R. Bailey

It has been much fun and very interesting reading the thoughts and understanding the results of 55 years of maturing.  When all is said there is nothing more educational then past experiences.

Now for a couple of my reflection:

  1. I am tired of our government being run by any one political party.I believe that if any legislator votes along party lines more than 60% of the time; he/she is not doing their job.

  2. Whatever happened to an administration and a congress that is working and making decisions that are for the good of the United States and its citizens?

  3. Why have these positions become careers?I believe our founding fathers and the leaders of this wonderful democratic country believed the “job” was to do what was best for all (most) and then go back to their real jobs and allow some others to come in and do their best.Bring on term limits!

  4. Why is there no limit on the amount of money that is spent to be elected to a government position?Shouldn’t we question why it makes financial sense to spend millions of dollars to get a $150,000 job?Where is the accountability, the loyalty?

  5. I do not see how anyone can be elected in today’s election system without owing to a number of somebody’s.

Now that I have vented I need to say, I believe in our system of government as it was written and intended.  We all need to get involved and let our leaders know how we feel about what they are doing, or not doing, and what we expect from them.  We all need to vote every time; it’s our responsibility. Let’s keep talking to each other and also to others outside our regular social contacts.  Be silent and listen before we talk!  Let us be positive about our country.  We need to demonstrate, not preach, to ourselves and to the world, how good things that can be accomplished by following a morally correct position.  Killing someone does not convince them we are right!

 God bless all humanity.  Pray for peace for all.


07/30/14 01:11 PM #167    

Joseph Atchison

Dear Fred, I only wish that I could find someone to vote for that had just half the sense that you have.  If only the people could decide on term limits . I heartedly agree with all you've said.  Great Job.  Joe A.

07/30/14 06:54 PM #168    

Susan Coulter Doubles

Really enjoyed reading your narrative Fred!  Keep em coming!

susan Coulter Doubles

07/30/14 09:50 PM #169    

Nancy Barnhart Sage

I was really getting worried that our class message forum was going to be one-sided until Nancy Havlicek chimed in. I live in Washington, DC, and my husband and I have been arguing about Russia and Ukraine. Then you all started this forum. It is great to hear different points of view. Tom, your comments really hit home, but many of you have certainly given me food for thought. Let's keep up the discussion.  That is what America is all about!!!! Thank you for sharing!!!!!!   

Nancy Barnhart Sage

07/31/14 08:40 AM #170    

David L. Carroll

I'm interested in a "fact check".  Nancy, what is the basis for your comment that 76% of Republicans are happy with their coverage under Obama Care?  Are you talking about all Republicans, or just those who were required to change or acquire their coverage after Obama Caare was implimented?  If the statement is accurate I assume that the Democrats will sweep to victory in November!

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