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Greetings Richard "Zaitz" Zaitlen,

I am thinking of you and sending best wishes to you and yours this Thanksgiving day and weekend. I hope you are all safe and able to hold one another and good memories close. Take time to celebrate and enjoy your Thanksgiving feast with the gratitude you have shared with us all on the Forum.

Thank you for inspiring me.

With all good wishes, Janis

11/18/18 09:36 PM

#652

Jacqueline Brandt (Duclos)

Someone needs to speak up in Carol’s defense. She is entitled to her opinions like we all are. She presents an alternative to the usual, and we need that on the Forum. Even if what is said is not of your liking, we need to give respect. Messages that are private should remain private unless the sender agrees to make them public. Embarrassment and humiliation are not satisfactory tactics, especially among classmates.

Carol stands for her principles, defends the underdog and should not be derided because of it. Whether you like or don’t like Trump ought not be the criteria for treating each other with or without common decency. Respect. We all need it and want it. I know I have to keep that in mind as much as anybody else.

Has this forum degenerated to the same kind of ostracization that is typical of high school teenage behavior? It's time we outlive that. All should feel welcome to post their comments here. Please, let’s refrain from being deliberately hurtful and exclusionary. Maybe then we will hear from more fresh voices.

11/19/18 04:12 AM

#653

I was recently in NY, the first time in years. What a shock I had coming into JFK !

It was like going into a third world country ! The infrastructure is a mess ! I have been

In airports all over the world and the only one I saw that was in such a level of delapidation

Was Kabul !

Steve, changing subjects, I don’t have your private mail address, my son and his family

Are planning a trip to Thailand just after Xmas. I think you live in chasing rai n’est pas ?

Any suggestions for their voyage ? Hotels , places whatever ?

11/19/18 05:58 PM

#654

Active Shooter Attack at Chicago’s Mercy Hospital.

When is enough enough?

and time to do everything we can

to prevent gun violence and death by gunfire?

What will our legacy be?

Open debate and a search for the common good

- COMPROMISE -

is what civilized people do AND makes our government work.

11/19/18 08:39 PM

#655

Frances Garfield (Brown)

Yep, another shooting in Chicago. 4 people killed, and one is the shooter who also was killed. I think we have heard this way too long. Get rid of the guns, soon!! What else can we do???

11/19/18 10:17 PM

#656

Paul, there were several items in your recent post, that I have to take issue with. You said that the Electoral College "is not designed, as you say, out of fear of direct election results of the population. It was never about the direct election of a president. It's all about the states selecting their president." But, Paul, as an educator, you would have to know, that the reason I gave was the actual reason. So, I don't understand why you won't just admit that. It's not even something that any historian would deny. The Electoral College was designed (absolutely) to create a buffer between the population and selection of a president. Later, you stated that "Clinton won the popular vote by approx. 1.5 million votes." when her actual margin of victory was almost twice that amount, way closer to 3 million votes. But, if you're a fan of Trump's ability to judge a crowd size, I get it. Even more objectionable, is your argument that 5 counties in NY state, totalling 319 sq. mi. out of a total of almost 4 million sq. mi. "more than accounted for Clinton winning the popular vote of the entire country." Then added, that "large, densely populated Democrat cities (NY, Chicago, LA, etc.) DO NOT and SHOULD NOT, speak for the rest of the country." Why not? Is it because all those minority voters tend to live in large, urban areas? If the Electoral College works so well, (1) why are we the only country in the world that has that institution, and (2) why in 2 of the last 5 elections, has the winner NOT been the popular vote winner? Do you feel that reflects "the will of the people"? I get why you want to keep the Electoral College, but at least admit that it gives Republicans an unfair advantage. Or do you think that the person who gets less popular vote, should be elected President? When I asked what else is 230 years old, that you wouldn't consider archaic & outdated, you replied "How about the Torah? Magna Carta, Shakespeare, Adam Smith, Cicero, Plato and Aristotle for starters." You left out Socrates? Didn't like his ideas? He was the precursor to Plato & Aristotle. I believe that your example of the Torah was a craven attempt to appeal to my Jewish heritage, which, guess what, didn't work, as I give no more credence to the Torah, than any other religious text. You then stated, "Your arguments that the Constitution is old and outdated are simply wrong." Don't think it's your place to decide that it's wrong, since for the past 50+ years, a majority of Americans, favor direct election of the President & V.P., instead of by the Electoral College. So, I guess I'm in the majority, and you're NOT. One last thing. I had asked you what your NRA camps had taught you about life & why you liked firearms so much - if you were a hunter. You said, "I own several firearms for three main reasons: target shooting, self-defense and I admire the craftsmanship of a firearm." And then, "the Supreme Court held that 'the right to keep and bear arms' is an individual, natural right'." If that is so, from where is this 'natural right' derived from? Just asking? Also, for you to state that you "admire the craftmanship of a firearm", is akin to me saying that "I admire the craftmanship of the electric chair", because they are both designed to do one thing, kill other human beings. By the way, I don't recall you ever stating, for the record, where you stand on the availability of semi-automatic weapons, to people in this country. For it, or against it, will be enough. The electric chair & semi-automatic weapons are both the result of advanced technology & nothing else. No divine or natural right.. With that, I have to say that I am starting to understand that I will never change your mind & conversely, you will never change mine. I am coming to understand that our differences are, I suspect, of how we were both raised. I also suspect, that to continue with this discussion is, at best, an exercise in futility, and, at worst, a fool's errand. Believe me, I am not trying to change anyone's mind, but if I changed even one person's mind, I would feel better about all of this discourse.

11/20/18 08:10 AM

#657

Stewart and Steve, I answer your questions and it causes you aggravation. That is not my intention. This kind of exchange is what drives people away from the Forum. I have told you that I support the guidelines that Larry and Ron have stated. What I say obviously bothers you, so let's stop. OK? No winner, no loser. No reply necessary. We are classmates, not opponents.

11/20/18 10:16 AM

#658

Paul, we are classmates-- one of the goals of our educational experience was that we learn to think and discuss, GROW, broaden our horizons, disagree with respect. Carol says we're in our 70s like we're stuck in concrete and will vote blindly as long as we have breath. That is not the legacy I want to leave. Steve shared that he had been an NRA member and carried a weapon... I have serious concerns about how we continue with the Electoral College, but I also understand why and appreciate the wisdom of a representative republic. On the other hand, you don't entertain open discussion. There don't have to be winners and losers. Whatever aggravation there might be is because you seem to be stuck - your mind closed to new information: it seems there is order in your life and you do not want to risk messing that up, dissuaded by facts and the reality of what is real and relevant in the now... for instance the NRA of your youth is not the NRA of today.

Stewart, you are absolutely correct: the electoral college was meant to create a buffer between the population and the selection of a President. The Founding Fathers wanted to protect the country from direct election to the Presidency. The Electoral College was meant to give extra power to the states in the selection of the president taking geography and population into consideration. By preventing the most densely populated states from dominating the election, the electoral college gives significantly more value to a vote in Wyoming than a vote in California or New York.

11/20/18 11:15 AM

#659

Happy Birthday, DK.

Hope you're getting good rest and practice and play

before heading to Florida (another year older

for the Golfweek Tournament of Champions...

Remember "it's not farther it's fewer"...

I'll be traveling to Montreal over Christmas--

I realize it won't be golf season--

any sights you might suggest reminiscent of "The Greatest Game Ever Played"?

All best wishes for a happy day and year...

Enjoy Black Diamond Ranch / FORE !

Janis

11/20/18 05:10 PM

#660

It was very nice, seeing Trudi's post from a couple of days ago. I totally agree with her sentiments. And David's also; don't remember hearing from him before. And Frances, very nice hearing from you, also & also, couldn't agree more. But, Paul, I didn't want to believe what Steve was saying, about you never answering questions. However, I took a look at my last post, and saw that I asked you seven questions, six were direct questions (those are the ones with the question marks) and one final, perhaps implied question. (1) You said, "large, densely populated Democrat cities (NY, Chicago, LA, etc.) SHOULD NOT, speak for the rest of the country." I asked, "Why not?", (2) "Why are we the only country in the world that has that institution (Electoral College)?", (3) "why in 2 of the past 5 elections, has the winner NOT been the popular vote winner?", (4) "Do you feel that reflects 'the will of the people'?", (5) "...or do you think that the person who gets less popular vote, should be elected President?", (6) "...from where is this 'natural right" (2nd Amendment) derived from?", and (7) "I don't recall you ever stating, for the record, where you stand on the availability of semi-automatic weapons to people in this country." So, Paul, I have to say that these personal statistics, are kind of backing up Steve's claim, because by my count, I asked 7 questions of you & received a grand total of 0 answers. I am not asking these questions to aggravate you; I really am curious about your answers, as I believe it can help me to understand your positions. One more thing, Paul, you sent a post to Steve and me, saying, "Stewart and Steve, I answer your questions and it causes you aggravation.", and later, "What I say obviously bothers you..." I will not assume to speak for Steve, but I will say that, first, Steve is correct, you do not answer questions & therefore, your (non)answers do NOT cause me any aggravation. I believe the aggravation, if any, stems from your refusal to answer questions; and "What I say obviously bothers you." Is this because I said in a post this past week, that 'You, like Trump, are wearing me out?" Just asking.

11/20/18 05:39 PM

#661

Donald Henry Kuehn

Janis, Thanks for the B-Day wishes. Today is also the 100th anniversary of my father’s birth! I just penned an email (can one “pen” an email?) to my siblings recognizing that fact and suggesting they do as I did and write a letter to him/them to reminisce or complain or remember what it was like “growing up Kuehn”. My mother would have been 100 on December 23 and their 76th anniversary would have been tomorrow.

It just got one stroke easier to shoot my age!

When we were in Montreal it was near perfect weather and we took a walking tour of the old city with one of the commercial outfits. I found it really interesting, but if you’ve been there before you probably have seen most of Old Montreal. The restaurants are among the best in the world and St. Catherine Street is always a good stroll.

As for the movie, Kanawaki Golf Club was a proxy for the real location of the match: The Country Club in Brookline, Mass. So, no, there’s not much GGEP-related to direct you to.

Have a great time in one of the most fascinating cities in the world. Happy Thanksgiving to all the posters and lurkers from the Class of ‘64.

11/20/18 08:09 PM

#662

Stewart,
1) ”You said, “”large, densely populated Democrat cities (NY, Chicago, LA, etc) SHOULD NOT, speak for the rest of the country.” Why not?” Answer: Incorrect. I did not say that. It was in a quote from an anonymous author. Never-the-less, my answer to why is because without a way to represent every state in our country, the original states would never have ratified the Constitution. They would not accept the possibility of domination by more populous states.

2) “Why are we the only country in the world that has that institution (Electoral College)? Answer: Because we are the only nation of 50 separate states that chose a republican (small r) form of government with a unique way so each state has a say in who is their president. He/she is primarily the president of the states.

3) “Why in 2 of the past 5 elections, has the winner NOT been the popular vote winner?” Answer: Because it takes a majority of the Electoral College (270) in order to become president. It prevents densely populated regions from deciding for all the states.

4) “Do you feel that reflects the will of the people?” Answer: When we vote, the will of the people determine who is the winner in our state. The state casts its electoral votes for that winner, as does each state. The votes from all the states determine the winner. That is how we express the will of the people and I think it is fair.

5) “. . . or do you think that the person who gets less popular votes, should be elected President?” Answer: I believe the Electoral College process is more fair than direct popular vote for the aforementioned reasons. Yes, the winner with 270 or more electoral votes but not necessarily the winner of the popular vote should be elected president.

6) “. . . from where is this “natural right” (2nd Amendment) derived from?” Answer: From the Declaration of Independence and The Bill of Rights (Amendments I – X). The Declaration refers to “Laws of Nature” and “Nature’s God.” “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, . . . endowed by their creator with certain unalienable Rights, among which are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” Natural rights of men come from our creator. Natural rights are not granted by government, kings or other men. We are born with a natural right to defend ourselves, family and property, country. The Founder’s codified that into the Second Amendment.

7) “I don’t recall you ever stating, for the record, where you stand on the availability of semi-automatic weapons to people in this country?” Answer: Semi-automatic weapons are used for hunting and target shooting. In the hands of law-abiding citizens that take responsibility for keeping them locked up, out of the hands of children and inaccessible without the owner’s permission, they are safe and should be allowed. What concerns me is the criminal and mentally impaired who get firearms, even in places like Chicago, that has the strictest gun laws in the nation. Disarming the honest citizen will not stop the criminal or mentally ill from getting a gun and committing a crime. We need to keep looking for that answer.

11/20/18 10:22 PM

#663

Paul, thank you for your swift response to all my questions. I can't say that I agree with all (or any) of your responses, but I will never again say that you don't respond to any questions. Thank you so much.

11/21/18 08:54 AM

#664

Steve,

Your question is, “Please tell us how you feel about trump now making America an accomplice to murder by accepting Saudi murder and dismemberment of US resident, Washington Post journalist?” Answer: Your question is loaded. Trump's actions have not made America an accomplice. Kashoggi’s murder was a terrible thing. There is no doubt in my mind that the Saudi Royal family, including the Crowned Prince was behind his murder. Murders, stoning’s, honor killings, hangings and beheadings are everyday occurrences in Saudi Arabia. We may abhore what their society countenances, but are limited in what Trump can do. We should not over-react to Kashoggi because he lived in the United States (was not a citizen) and was a journalist for the Washington Post. The strategic balance of power is more important. I think we should make a finding of guilt (already done). Denounce the murder and the perps (already done). Impose economic and travel sanctions on the perpetrators. Urge the royal family to replace the Crowned Prince with another (The present Prince is a potential Caligula that we will regret in the future if he becomes King). Trump is right that he should not cancel a weapons deal that would risk that the Saudis would turn to China or Russia for their weapons purchases. That relationship must be preserved to maintain the strategic balance and to defend our ally, Israel.
Your question: “What do you think of Matt Whitaker as the U.S. Attorney General? Answer: It doesn’t amount to much. The appointment was made under the “Appointments Act.” It is a temporary, 90-day appointment. The president has the right to appoint anyone he choses. He chose to bypass Rosenstein. Let the court challenges go forward. The permanent Attorney General is a principal government position and requires the “Advise and Consent” of the Senate. Trump has whatever remains of the 90 days to make a nomination for Attorney General.

11/21/18 09:51 AM

#665

Paul,

You and Trump are two peas in a pod - strictly transactional. SAD!!! If it's to "our" economic advantage, killing is no problem-- consistent with your opinion about the second amendment and gun manufacturers. Human life is not the highest priority to you.

“When we lose our moral voice, we lose our strongest asset.” -- SC Republican Senator Lindsey Graham in response to Trump challenging the CIA’s conclusion that the Saudi Crown Prince is responsible for the heinous murder of Washington Post journalist Khashoggi.

You are correct, the small states and slave states would not have ratified the Constitution had there been the possibility of domination by more populous states. There are small states in the original 13 that have dense populations; slave states counted African slaves as 3/5 in their population count. Industry (farming) and geography were important considerations in establishing the power balance in colonial America.

The smallest state Rhode Island is actually more populous than a number of much larger states, including Montana, Alaska, and Wyoming. Wyoming is the smallest population state in the U.S. and has the highest negative population growth rate.

It is hunting season in Wisconsin - no one wants to eat a deer they shot with an assault weapon.

11/21/18 11:20 AM

#666

Marvin Irving Blusteln

I find it interesting and oftem perplexing, that conservatives often chose to ignore facts, deny a person's history, or say we shouldn't discuss this or that.

Paul as former school administrator, I wonder if you would have kept many of these factless and fact denier conservatives on your staff if they were teachers. i can see 45 as a fantastic history teacher.

11/21/18 11:21 AM

#667

Marvin Irving Blusteln

And Happy Thanksgiving to all!

11/21/18 02:03 PM

#668

In his first response to Trump (a rare direct response from a Supreme Court Chief Justice who usually refrains from commenting or responding to the remarks of politicians) Chief Justice John Roberts rebuked Trump and defended the judiciary in the face of Trump’s continuing criticism of federal judges.

"We do not have Obama judges or Trump judges, Bush judges or Clinton judges. What we have is an extraordinary group of dedicated judges ... "

Then the Chief Justice sent a Thanksgiving message: “That independent judiciary is something we should all be thankful for.”

Trump does not believe in American institutions.

He is literally trying to indict his political opponents.

Chief Justice Roberts is known for working to protect the reputation of the judiciary as an independent branch of government.

Trump fired back at Roberts on Twitter... are we surprised?

Trump will fight with anyone except his favorites - despots.

11/21/18 02:29 PM

#669

Paul, I don't think that Steve's question was loaded (at all). You stated, "Trump's actions have not made America an accomplice." If you think that not assigning culpability in Kashoggi's death, to the rulers of Saudi Arabia, which Trump has consistently avoided, is not being an accomplice, what would it take for you to admit that? Further, you said, "I think we should make a finding of guilt (already done)." What bizarre, alternative-universe are you living in? "already done"? I don't know which news sites you watch for your news, but I have heard NOTHING, indicating that the White House has made any admission that the president has found anything regarding the guilt of the Saudis, or, particularly, the crown prince. All I've heard is, "We'll just have to wait & see, until all of the facts are in." Nothing is already done. Further, you stated, "Trump is right that he should not cancel a weapons deal that would risk the Saudis would turn to China or Russia for their weapons purchases." Are you aware that Germany has already done just that? But, since Trump is involved, I'm guessing that it's all about the money, not right or wrong. One other thing, if the U.S. has the most powerful military, with the most advanced weaponry, who gives a shit if they get their armaments from either China or Russia? I don't really want to explain the Whitaker appointment, because you are correct. It is a temporary (for now) 90-day appointment. You said, "He chose to bypass Rosenstein." Why is that, Paul? Rosenstein has been a career employee of the Justice Dept.; Whitaker has been at Justice for 1 year, or less. Can you think of ANY reason that Trump would bypass a veteran, career employee, for a "newbie"? Just asking. By the way, Marv, thanks for the input. I have to jump in the shower, to get ready for work.

11/21/18 02:43 PM

#670

Janis, please read what I said again. I did not condone Kashoggi's killing. Neither did Trump. Our country's strategic interests should not be sacrificed for Kashoggi’s murder. What do you think would be the right thing for Trump to do? There has been more moral outrage (including your own and Steve’s) over Kshoggi's murder than was ever given when a United States Ambassador, Chris Smith and four other Americans were killed in Benghazi. Why is that? Is it because all the outrage over Trump is politically motivated? Uh, Huh. Our government did nothing to correct the heinous Benghazi crimes. Do you defend that?

And, what did our government do when Assad crossed the “line in the sand” and gassed his own people: we moved the line further back and did nothing. Do you defend that? So, let’s stop bashing Trump for taking an unpopular stand in defense of our strategic interests and Israel.

Marvin, please explain your statement about my decisions with my faculty. I never let politics enter my professional relationships with teachers. I hope you said that in jest.

11/21/18 03:18 PM

#671

Stewart, here is a quote supporting that Trump already spoke out about the killing and who was responsible: From Real Clear Politics:“The president on Tuesday condemned the brutal slaying of Khashoggi inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul as a “horrible crime ... that our country does not condone. . . It could very well be that the crown prince had knowledge of this tragic event,” the president said.” Trump did not avoid condemning the murder or making a judgment about the Prince.

Please tell me, what is so important to the United States about Germany’s decisions not to sell arms to Saudi Arabia? Should we follow suit behind a minor player who has little at risk?

Your question about why Trump passed over Rosenstein? Answer: I’m just guessing it’s because he did not trust him. Rosenstein has experience, yes. But, he may be part of the swamp Trump is trying to dislodge. Your question, “Can you think of ANY reason that Trump would bypass a veteran, career employee, for a "newbie"? Just asking,” suggests there is a more deep and dark motive. What do you think the reason is? What proof do you have?

May all have a restful and Happy Thanksgiving.

11/21/18 04:16 PM

#672