I'd love to hear how classmates feel about whether or not, what you feel he did worthy of impeachment, how you feel about the legality/fairness of the process, etc.   Just asking :-) 

Janis Kliphardt Emery wrote:

Carol (and others?),

Thanks for asking.  While I don't believe that he is personally worthy of holding the office I do believe that his actions make him "worthy of impeachment" (the bringing of charges) by the House.  We'll see if the Senate will convict (I'd be surprised).  As to "legality/fairness" I would say 'yes' to both as defined by Article II, Section 4 of the Constitution. 

You didn't ask, but I also believe that only the Congress has the power to declare war (Article II, Section 8), something it hasn't done since WWII.  I also believe, as stated in Amendment II, that the "right of the people to keep and bear Arms" should be reserved for those who belong to a "well regulated militia".  Does that make me an "originalist"?  :-)

How about you?

Ron

Ron, I dare say, you're more of an "originalist" than Americans who claim to be conservative.

Dear Ron,

It comes as no surprise that you would ask how I feel -- And really want to know.  How nice!  Another thing I noted was your normal respectful and open response.  You tend to speak from your heart  and mind and preface it with "I believe," stating your reasons for that belief.

When I posted, it wasn't because I was chomping at the bit to share my views, but really interested in what (and how) others have to say.  Must admit I'd love to hear some conservative (or as Janis says those who claim to be conservatives) points of view as well, but am open to any and all.  There's no doubt that no matter the individual perspective, this is a tragic and devastating event for our Republic.

So, though I wasn't planning to answer myself, I will oblige.  I just need to get my thoughts together so I might present them in as respectful a way as do you.

Later, Carol

The show trial is going well for Republicans.  Counsel for the House Republicans is presenting an organized and effective summation.

Now we're watching the impeachment of Joe Biden.

AG Barr now rejects the report of the Inspector General who justifies opening the Russia probe and finds no evidence of FBI bias.

Talk about human carnage; we are in a bad place when the president and attorney general slime our institutions and the public eats up their words.

In time (how long we don't know), facts will prevail.

Note: Republicans were calling for Obama's impeachment throughout his presidency.  They would have impeached Obama for wearing a tan suit.

Democrats cooperated with Republicans to censure Clinton.

I believe Republicans, who might prefer to censure Trump, will, in good conscience, vote for conviction to protect and defend the Constitution.

Carol, I want to say, first of all, that I agree with almost all of Janis sentiments, from her post of this past Saturday, including the part about, "He is a risk to national security."  From pulling out of Syria & abandoning Kurdish allies, to withholding (Congressionally-mandated) military support to Ukraine, who are fighting a hot war against Russia (our historical & persistent enemy), to telling our NATO allies they need to pony up their fair share, if they want to count on continued U.S. support, for the strongest military/political alliance since WWII, to backpedaling on Obama administration sanctions against Russian embassies & staff (for their annexation of Crimea & messing in our 2016 election) & complaining that the U.S. wound up expelling 2 or 3 times the number of diplomats that any other country has expelled.  Have you noticed yet that all of these things benefit benefit ONE country, instead of our own country?  Plus, Janis did not even bring up obvious violations of the "emoluments" clause of our Constitution.  I am not even trying to convince you, Carol, of the veracity of these things.  Because I understand that we see what we want to see.  But, the main thing that bothers me about Trump's random & wide-spread violation of Constitutional law, & his disregard for the "separation of powers" is that is it setting a dangerous precedent for future presidents, regardless of party.  I hope you will agree that if Obama, or any Democratic president, had done 10% of what Trump has done, the Republicans would have been all over it, and rightfully so.

Two Articles of impeachment expected:

Abuse of Power

Obstruction of Congress

Thursday, December t2th, the House Judiciary Committee plans to vote on Articles of Impeachment.

Articles of Impeachment are expected to be on the House Floor for a vote next week.

What has been done to our country through this mockery of justice is, in my view, destructive to the very fiber of our democratic process and sets a dangerous precedence.  I'd stand just as strongly against it if this were being done to Obama.  NO president should ever have to go through something like this again.

As requested and respectfully submitted

Ron (and others?).

In D.C. vs Heller the Supreme Court explained that the citizens comprise the militia.  More importantly, they concluded the right to keep and bear arms is an individual right guaranteed by the Constitution.  To help explain this, the Court stated that the operative clause is, “The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”  The other part is a prefactory clause  that was an announcement of purpose, “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,”  That does not limit the individual right of the operative clause in any way.  The first clause still means citizens are a militia.  Their role is patriotic. The are to obey the laws of the land and to defend the Constitution.

Most of us have great anxiety and sadness when we hear of another shooting.  We yearn for something to be done. The vast majority of citizens who own a gun are law abiding.  Their rights should not be infringed.  I think the solution is far more complex that "common sense gun control."  Factors to look at are, real-time coverage, drugs, video games, social pressure on our youth, television violence, mental illness, the family fabric, religious beliefs (or lack thereof), what people may know in advance about unstable people, and I am sure more can be added to this short list.  They found out recently in Austrailia where all guns were confiscated, that criminals kept their guns and commit crimes. Oops!  America has the potential to be the country that studies the relational causes of mass shootings and comes up with the solution to prevent troubled souls from harming our fellow citizens.

Nice to see your input here, Paul.  Nice to have a venue where we can discuss current events and politics and reserve the MF for, as Janis so eloquently phrased it, "This site gives us the opportuntity to celebrate our classmates and the memories we share, and to move forward in the company and with the perspective of dear friends and acquaintances, looking to the future."

Finally, some good news for which we can reach across the divide.  Today Nancy Pelozi announced that the Democrats are ready to move forward on the USMCA Treaty.  It's only taken 13 months but, hey, better late than never.  I'm glad to see they've learned to "walk and chew gum at the same time."

So it seems there's one silver lining coming out of the impeachment process.

Posted Wednesday, December 11, 2019  12:05 AM
Alan A. Alop wrote:

Posted Thursday, December 12, 2019  10:00 AM / Janis Kliphardt Emery wrote:

We all lose when we put Party first, when we put a President before our country.

Do Americans believe it's OK for a president to invite foreign interference in our elections?

Are we seeking truth? or engaged in a competition?

with a running smear campaign against the Bidens.

It is Congress' responsibility to protect and defend our Constitution;

it is the President's responsibility to protect and defend the Constitution.

We have a rogue president; Republicans have become a monarchist party.

Debate involves talking and listening.  Why is there NO exchange of ideas?

We have lost our ability to reason.

The Republican members of the House Judiciary Committee are speaking to an audlence of one.

The Democratic members of the House Judiciary Committee are working to educate the American public.

Newspaper editorials are pouring in in support of impeachment.

The House Judiciary Committee will stay in session to vote on amendments to the Articles of Impeachment.

It is not yet known if the Judiciary Committee will vote tonight or overnight on the Articles of Impeachment, but they will vote before they adjourn and leave town.

Rep Ted Lieu of California is the one member of the House Judiciary Committee who is not in the hearing room today.  He is recovering following a heart procedure to implant a heart stent after he experienced chest pains on Tuesday.  Tests showed no heart attack and no heart damage; a CT scan showed partial blockage of an artery that was likely the cause of the symptoms.

P.S. Majority Leader McConnell is delaying USMCA vote in the U.S. Senate until the impeachment trial is over.

The House Judiciary Committee was abruptly recessed until tomorrow (Friday) morning.

At 10:10 AM ET the House Judiciary Committee approved two Articles of Impeachment: Abuse of power and Obstruction of Congress. 

The full House is expected to take up the impeachment charges next week.

Donald Trump tweeted 123 times today.

Mitch McConnell, as Senate Majority Leader, is the foreman of the jury.  Yet he vows to work in total coordination with the White House on the impeachment trial... the jury foreman working for Trump's Senate impeachment trial defense, violating his oath for the impeachment process.  Where is the separation of powers?

We either have 'rule of law' or we do not.  
In America nobody is above the law... we do not have an imperial presidency.

Just heard the voice of a "Repulsed Republican"... I admire her independence.

We are living in a time of hyper partisan parties...

Justin Amash was a Republican who read the Mueller Report - 
he supports impeachment and was banned from the GOP - which doesn't make him a Democrat, he is now an Independent.

Jeff Van Drew is a Democrat against impeachment, he is expected to switch to the GOP after he votes against impeachment.

Unlike Lindsey Graham, Adam Schiff says if Obama had done what Trump has done, he would have voted to impeach Obama.

I admire "Repulsed Republicans" - they're not into gaslighting - they're Republicans who do not reflexively support Trump's imperial presidency.