Message Forum - GENERAL

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2025/01/07/us/trump-news?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

Just love the onslaught of Trumpian BS!

"Karoline Leavitt, a spokeswoman for Mr. Trump, responded by citing the election: “Americans delivered an overwhelming Election Day rebuke of the Biden-Harris administration’s abysmal track record."

Overwhelming rebuke of Biden-Harris--less than half of the electorate voted for Trump, and several million fewer votes than Biden received in 2020. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/11/05/us/elections/results-president.html

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Maybe if I talk big about sending our soldiers off to kill and die, people will forget about my bone spurs.

01/07/25 05:30 PM

#17842

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2025/01/07/us/trump-news#trump-panama-canal-greenland

I apologize for hogging the forum! I promise this is my last post for this week.

Just a few highlights from Trump's excellent "press conference" today.

Trump complains that Biden has continued to act as president during the transition.

Trump refused to rule out using military force to retake the Panama Canal.

Trump threatened to use “economic force” to join Canada and the United States together.

He also said he would “tariff Denmark at a very high level” if it does not give Greenland to the United States.

He suggested that his administration will rename the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of America.

“The windmills are driving the whales crazy,”

Trump also reiterated his threat that the hostages must be returned by January 20 “If they’re not back by the time I get into office, all hell will break out in the Middle East." (I guess this means we will join the war in the Middle East?)

And he complained about shower heads with restricted water flow, he said. “It’s called rain, comes down from comes down from heaven. And they want to do, no water comes out of the shower, It goes drip, drip, drip. So what happens you’re in the shower 10 times as long, you know. No water comes out of the faucet.”

Thank you for that explanation about rain. Who knew? Anybody else been using water-restricted shower heads for 30 years and still having very nice showers like I have?

01/08/25 09:31 AM

#17843

On bended knee, thoughts are front & center on LA & the 1400+ saving lives & fighting to quell ravaging fires there.

01/08/25 01:47 PM

#17844

I agree Nori, This fire is a major one in the LA area. I also am thinking of people forced to evacuate their homes and in great danger. Love, Joanie

01/08/25 03:10 PM

#17845

We are in an area of LA not yet threatened by the fire - thanks for asking Jay. But my son was evacuated from his house in Pasadena yesterday. Last night we helped him remove some of his belongings like movie cameras and important papers. His house is still standing, but our friends who live a mile away lost their home completely. My son has two friends whose parents live in their childhood homes in Pacific Palisades which both burned down. We're very concerned for other friends who we haven't yet heard from.

So glad that if this nightmare had to happen, it happened under Pres. Biden's watch. Trump has already declared that he would offer no federal assistance to the Blue state of California. Today he is attacking our Governor instead of praising firefighters and consoling homeowners who've lost everything and families of those who've died. What a miserable excuse for a human being.

01/08/25 04:00 PM

#17846

Some more of what I FEEL: (1) am wondering why the "stupid idea that any president has control over inflation" (to which Joan referred) has been "stupidly" held during all my years of following politics. Case in point: Jimmy Carter was blamed for the double-digit inflation rate which directly led to his losing a second term. Over spending risks inflation, as our resident economics teacher, Jack, would most likely agree. ALL presidents are held accountable, fairly or otherwise, for the state of our economy during the years they serve. "Stupid" seems to be purely subjective. But I won't take it personally. :) (2) It would seem, too, that Jack's NYT report that Harris won the popular vote is hugely outdated since it appeared so soon after the election, before the final tallies had come in. So, let's get this straight: Trump won the popular vote, the electoral vote, the House and the Senate. (3) Not sure where Joan got the info that Trump is a rapist. Perhaps a factual source is in order to clarify that terrible handle. As for his being a felon: most of America seems to have thought his felonious behaviors were more politically targetted than judiciously serious. Hush money? Document mishandling? Referencing Biden in a phone conversation? Seriously? Could the political motive have been to keep him from winning the presidency yet again? (4) Yes, Kamala Harris handled her certification duties with aplomb and that was probably not a comfortable position in which to be. Agreed. (5) As for Trump saying that an inauguration with flags flying at half mast is not a "good look". I agree with him on that too. He often speaks tongue in cheek. I get that. However, a truly gracious Biden would not have insisted the 30 days include the country's Inauguration Day. My subjective opinion. (6) Joanie, Biden's pardon of his son is within his pardoning power but his including Hunter's exoneration over a decade has set a precedent. (Btw, who do you think Hunter's reference to "the big guy" was? Just curious). (7) As for Greenland: do you really want a good leader to take ANY (even remote) possibilies 'off the table' before he even gets into office? Could it be that Trump is using bombastic rhetoric as deterrence to foreign adversaries (ie., Russia/China) that he will NOT be happy if Denmark cannot protect Greenland against factions such as those? Do you realize how important Greenland is geographically, particularly now that global warming is opening up that pathway leading from the Arctic more and more? I find Trump's comments absolutely necessary in staking out his early positioning before Jan. 20th. To bite on the reporter's baited question, would be very disturbing. Just my FEELING. (8) Did you know that Harry Truman had wanted to purchase Greenland way back when? A man before his time.

01/08/25 04:37 PM

#17847

Postscript: Joan, perhaps it may be helpful to know that illegal immigration of the southern border is down now because temps drop below freezing in the desert and pose added risks to migrant crossings.

01/08/25 05:31 PM

#17848

Glad you're safe, Joan, and I hope your son will be also. Deb grew up in southern CA, not far from the fires, so this is all very concerning to her. I lived in Ventura and Santa Barbara, a bit farther away, and I know the Santa Ana winds but nothing like what they're experiencing.

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"It would seem, too, that Jack's NYT report that Harris won the popular vote is hugely outdated since it appeared so soon after the election, before the final tallies had come in."

Just checked the reference I provided when I posted the info Nori is referring to. Here it is, unchanged except for my pointing to both the date and time of the last update (almost two months after the election, well after the late tallies came in) and also the less than 50% total of Trump's popular vote.

Nori, you've got to read what I write. I did not say the NYT reported that Harris won the popular vote. I and the NYT said that Trump failed to win a majority--more than half. That's what the data show. If the print is too small for you, as it nearly is for me, let me help:

Harris won 48.43% of the popular vote. Trump won 49.91% of the popular vote. Trump won the popular vote, but with fewer than half the voters--who split between Harris and other candidates. If you have data to contradict that, Nori, I'd be happy to see it. But please don't claim that I or the Times say things that we don't. As we get older, maybe we need to read things a couple of times.

01/08/25 08:33 PM

#17849

Here's a photo from a friend who lives in Pacific Palisades. The village of Pacific Palisades which includes stores, restaurants, churches and schools is gone.

01/08/25 08:51 PM

#17850

Appreciate the large print, my friend! I get it. But please do indulge me further by explaining why that matters so much. What difference does it make? (Where have I heard that?) It isn't much of a surprise when the country polls (including exit polls) are at (or just below) 50-50, no? How is that compensating?
These heartbreaking hellfires of CA are reported to be more catastrophic (possibly?) due to environmental concerns which legislated protection of endangered (such as steelhead trout) species & engineered the destruction of dams affecting water supplies. Apparently, too, there are many homeless settlements in LA where folks set daily fires to offset dropping temps. I would hope that many fingers are being pointed in anger...not just Trump's, & that steps are taken to review all possibilities & reach decisions to see that these fires cease to be so destructive & so common to that beautiful part of the country. Scream, threaten, embarrass & bully away Mr. Trump! Maybe, just maybe it will eventually help to keep this kind of extensive disaster from happening again.

Meanwhile, am grateful & relieved your son & family have survived with their precious lives, Joan.

01/08/25 11:12 PM

#17851

Joan, I am so glad your home is ok but sorry your son had to evacuate.. Thank goodness he is ok.

Nori, even if you think Biden went to far in pardoning his son for up to 10 years, what do you think of Trump planning to pardon people who were violent on Janaury 6th? Why not a mention of that?

Trump was not targeted unfairly. Those are his talking points. He was judged by a jury of his peers fair and square to have committed those 34 felonies. When he claimed fraud in the 2020 election, judges who were even appointed by him said there was no there there. He is a fraudster and lies constantly. Its just too bad a large group of the public believe the lies.

Its not politically motivated to call him to account for classified documents that he was not supposed to keep that he also showed to people. I know you give him a pass on just about everything but he has not shown any interest in caring about the American people. He wants to further only himself.

I think it was crass of Trump to talk about the image of grief that would be there with the flags at half staff. It would have been nice if he realized what a great man President Carter was and give him the honor he deserves to have the full 30 days. Instead its always about him. Love, Joanie

01/09/25 05:54 AM

#17852

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1TqQ12wo1A

/Because reality matters, Nori. Because people who take a casual attitude towards facts may end up believing falsehoods that affect their well-being, like claims that the election created a huge mandate for Trump's policies. Or that the tragic fires in CA are worsened by environmental policies. From HCR:

Trump blamed California Governor Gavin “Newscum and his Los Angeles crew” for the fires, suggesting he had put the needs of fish over the people of California. He posted: “Governor Gavin Newscum refused to sign the water restoration declaration put before him that would have allowed millions of gallons of water, from excess rain and snow melt from the North, to flow daily into many parts of California, including the areas that are currently burning in a virtually apocalyptic way.” "Let this stand as a symbol of the gross incompetence and mismanagement of the Biden/Newsom duo,” Trump posted. “January 20th cannot come fast enough!"
Newsom’s office responded: “There is no such document as the water restoration declaration—that is pure fiction. The Governor is focused on protecting people, not playing politics, and making sure firefighters have all the resources they need.”
Trump is apparently claiming that water that could be used to fight the fires has been diverted to protect the endangered Delta smelt. But the water systems in California are complicated, and importing water from northern California would make no difference for the wildfires.
Los Angeles water doesn’t come from northern California. It comes from an aqueduct east of the Sierra Nevada, from groundwater, and from the Colorado River. Right now, the Metropolitan Water District of Southern California has more water stored than it has ever had before, according to Mark Gold, a board member. “It’s not a matter of having enough water coming from Northern California to put out a fire,” he told Alastair Bland of CalMatters. “It’s about the continued devastating impacts of a changing climate.”
Hydroclimatologist Peter Gleick told Taryn Luna, Liam Dillon, and Alex Wigglesworth of the Los Angeles Times that Trump’s linking of water policy to the raging fires was “blatantly false, irresponsible and politically self-serving.”

The two different responses of the current president and the incoming one reveal dramatically different approaches to the presidency.

~ Heather Cox Richardson

And because we must evaluate the credibility of the sources of "information" we see in social media. When sources can't interpret data, like a simple presentation of electoral results, or fail to provide all the facts around complex issues, we have to be careful about other information they provide.

01/09/25 08:39 AM

#17853

Thanks for that excellent post Jack. It shows how Trump says things that are lies to sway people's opinions and attack his perceived enemies. . Good you posted Gavin Newson's response to the falsehoods about why there are fires in California. Love, Joanie

01/09/25 12:55 PM

#17854

The Sudetenland?

01/09/25 01:03 PM

#17855

Jay Shackford

An Angry Old Man Gets Ready for his Inauguration

(Editor’s Note: Donald “The Felon” Trump sure came off as an angry old man during his news conference earlier this week. He’s not even president yet and he’s already claiming credit for what he considers the good things that are happening at the end of Joe Biden’s term — the increase in stock prices and technology and foreign leaders who are traveling to Mar a Lago and kissing his ring, just to name a few.

(Surprisingly, Trump is saying very little about lowering inflation and prices of goods and services — the one issue, more than any other, that provided him with his 1% mandate. He also backed away from his pledge of “ending the Russian/Ukraine war on day one.” Instead, he’s saying that the war never would have started under his leadership. Not surprisingly, he spent a lot of time bad mouthing President Joe Biden, Vice President Kamala Harris and even the late President Jimmy Carter whose body was being flown to DC at that very moment for his state funeral. He had nothing (zero) to say about the certification of the electoral votes and peaceful transfer of power presided over by VP Kamala Harris on January 6, 2025. She did her job with dignity and grace.

(Trump also lashed out at Jack Smith and others in the “Injustice Department” for carrying out a witch hunt against him. Remember, Trump’s number one goal in running for President again — stay out of jail. Jack Smith’s report and Trump’s upcoming sentencing hearing on Friday (both of which Trump is fighting) are just painful reminders of the types of things Trump wants to brush aside and pretend they never happened.

(What we saw during Trump’s press conference shouldn’t surprise us — it is the same small, petty, bully who will lie, cheat and say and do anything to promote himself and hide his own insecurities. Trump enjoys the role of playing the tough guy — taking over the Panama Canal, Canada and Greenland. Throwing millions of immigrants — even the kids of immigrants borne here (I guess that includes Kash Patel) — out of the country. But underneath that tough exterior is scared little boy who doesn’t have a clue about governing the most powerful nation in the world.

(How about his cabinet picks and top advisers? Don’t even look. There are no guardrails in his second term. If you doubt that, consider the character and qualifications of his nominees — particularly Pete Hegseth,
Tulsi, Kash Patel and JFK, Jr. or just read Penelope Hegseth’s email to her son.)

“Belittles, lies, cheats and sleeps around”

The New York Times

Nov. 29, 2024

The mother of Pete Hegseth, President-elect Donald J. Trump’s pick for secretary of defense, wrote him an email in 2018 saying he had routinely mistreated women for years and displayed a lack of character.

“On behalf of all the women (and I know it’s many) you have abused in some way, I say … get some help and take an honest look at yourself,” Penelope Hegseth wrote, stating that she still loved him.

She also wrote: “I have no respect for any man that belittles, lies, cheats, sleeps around and uses women for his own power and ego. You are that man (and have been for years) and as your mother, it pains me and embarrasses me to say that, but it is the sad, sad truth.”

Mrs. Hegseth, in a phone interview with The New York Times on Friday, said that she had sent her son an immediate follow-up email at the time apologizing for what she had written. She said she had fired off the original email “in anger, with emotion” at a time when he and his wife were going through a very difficult divorce.

Mrs. Hegseth emailed her son on April 30, 2018, during a turbulent period in his life. He was in the middle of a contentious divorce from his second wife, Samantha, the mother of three of his children. Samantha Hegseth filed for divorce after her husband impregnated a co-worker, part of a pattern of adultery that dated back to his first marriage.

Mr. Hegseth’s mother wrote in the email that she was upset about his treatment of Samantha, writing: “For you to try to label her as ‘unstable’ for your own advantage is despicable and abusive. Is there any sense of decency left in you?”

“She did not ask for or deserve any of what has come to her by your hand,” she said. “Neither did Meredith,” Mrs. Hegseth added, referring to his first wife.

Mrs. Hegseth forwarded a copy of her email to Samantha the same night she sent it to her son, according to documents reviewed by The Times. The Times obtained a copy of the email from another person with ties to the Hegseth family. The email does not describe in detail the circumstances that prompted Mrs. Hegseth to write it.

01/09/25 03:50 PM

#17856

Great Post Jay. We are in for a lot of falsehoods and claims of greatness that turn into cruelty and attacks on our climate and on the rule of law with all the loyalists he is appointing that have sworn their loyalty to him. Love, Joanie

01/09/25 05:52 PM

#17857

https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/pacific-palisades-fire-high-winds-southern-california/

Nori you just don't seem to comprehend what people are saying to you. I said that NO president has control over inflation. You reply that Carter lost because of inflation. Tell me what those two statements have to do with each other. People FELT that Carter was responsible for inflation even though he and no other president has that power - not Carter, Reagan, Bush, Biden, Trump or the next president.

Where did you get the information that ANY of these fires in Los Angeles originated from a homeless campfire? Please inform us. I've read that the Pacific Palisades fire began in a backyard in that very neighborhood. I'm skeptical that any homeless people are camped out in a neighborhood with $8 million homes.......but I could be wrong. "The Los Angeles Fire Department said the Palisades Fire started Tuesday at 10:30 a.m. near 1190 North Piedra Morada Dr. With winds reaching at least 40 mph, the flames quickly spread to about 200 acres and grew exponentially." "The Eaton Fire was first reported at around 6 p.m. Tuesday near Altadena Drive and Midwick Drive above Altadena, according to Cal Fire and LACoFD crews".

Maybe Nori is better informed than the lamestream media as she would call it.

https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/eaton-canyon-altadena-brush-fire-strong-winds/#:~:text=The%20Eaton%20Fire%20was%20first,Cal%20Fire%20and%20LACoFD%20crews.

A fire began two blocks from my house on Tuesday. The winds which were gusting up to 100MPH blew down a tree, which hit a power line, which caused a spark, which started a fire, which with the winds, quickly took off. That's how fires start. Homeless people not needed. Fortunately, the fire dept. quickly put this one out. Also maybe Nori doesn't know that we have a high of 69° today, so our homeless are not freezing.

Due to a fire that began at 6PM last night in the Hollywood Hills, about 2 miles from my home, we packed up 2 cars with what we thought irreplaceable and waited for the evacuation order. Since the winds had died down, helicopters were able to be used to control it with water drops. and we didn't have to evacuate.

Some areas in Los Angeles had their power turned off in order to mitigate the kind of fire which happened in my neighborhood. As a result, pumps which keep the water pressure up to par were affected. In some areas, there was not enough water pressure. Generators had to be brought in. In spite of what the felon and Nori say, it had nothing to do with protecting steelhead trout, (which by the way are delicious.)

In answer to a question - maybe you missed this? Judge Lewis A Kaplan said “The finding that Ms. Carroll failed to prove that she was ‘raped’ within the meaning of the New York Penal Law does not mean that she failed to prove that Mr. Trump ‘raped’ her as many people commonly understand the word rape," Maybe Nori thinks inserting his fingers into her vagina is just flirting. "The definitions offered by the American Psychological Association and the Justice Department, which in 2012 expanded its definition of rape to include penetration “with any body part or object.” Yes, he's a rapist.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/07/19/trump-carroll-judge-rape/

One more thought from Nori - "most of America seems to have thought his felonious behaviors were more politically targetted than judiciously serious" In spite of what "most of America" thinks or feels, the felon was unanimously convicted by a jury. Do you think our judicial system should go with what people feel or with what the jury saw in a trial?

When a president dies, the custom, the tradition is that flags fly at half mast for 30 days. Biden didn't make this up. He didn't even order it. So Nori thinks Jimmy Carter should be dishonored so that Trump should "have a good look" at his inauguration. A truly gracious Trump would have kept his mouth shut about "the look" he wants. You have really bought into the MAGA crassness.

Hunter Biden committed a minor crime. His father pardoned him to prevent further revenge by Trump. So what? Maybe pardoning those who brutally attacked police officers, some of who later died or were maimed is preferable?

"He often speaks tongue in cheek." "Trump is using bombastic rhetoric as deterrence to foreign adversaries" So are you telling us that we shouldn't listen to what he threatens because it's just a joke or just bullying or just bombast? You think our adversaries don't see him that way too and just laugh at his rhetoric? You think they aren't aware that a few well-placed butt kisses will have him in the palm of their hand? Putin will wipe the floor with Trump.

01/09/25 06:34 PM

#17858

https://thebulletin.org/2025/01/spreading-like-wildfire-how-trumps-misinformation-about-water-and-fire-in-los-angeles-inflames-the-situation/?utm_source=SocialShare&utm_medium=CopyLink&utm_campaign=CopyLink&utm_term

Joan speaks to a problem that Nori, and Trump, perpetuate. Yes, reality matters. I wasn't surprised to see the evidence-free allegation that homeless people are responsible for the CA fires, it's another effort to blame the less fortunate, even in the face of abundant evidence for more likely causes.

Nori asks, "What difference does it make" that we know the facts. Lies coming from both the highest sources and just plain folks distort our understanding of reality--the understanding necessary to make policies which might really reduce fires, for example, more effectively than witch hunts among the homeless or phony attacks on environmental policies. That's why we have to always ask, "Who we gonna believe?"

Trump, or Nori, or the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists? I know where my money would go!

01/10/25 08:29 AM

#17859

Joan and Jack, I agree with the points in your posts. Thank you so much. I'm so glad, Joan, that you didn't have to evacuate your home. This is a terrifying situation facing people in LA...and yes it wasn't caused by a homeless person. Love, Joanie

01/10/25 09:07 AM

#17860

American firsts:

George Washington, America's first president!

Regina Jacobs, first American woman to run a sub-four minute mile!

Neil Armstrong, first American astronaut to walk on the moon!

Kamala Harris, first American woman of color to be elected Vice President!

Donald Trump, first American felon to be elected President!

Gotta be proud of them all! Well, most of them.

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I'm advised that Regina Jacobs is a poor choice, due to steroid use! How about we replace her with NH's own Christa McAuliffe, America's first woman in space?

01/10/25 09:53 AM

#17861

Thought I'd post this because it's well-sourced, and I doubt we'll hear about it from Trump. Or Nori.

Note that some of these are undocumented immigrants. I wonder how many of us would call immigration to get them immediately deported?
https://www.npr.org/2025/01/10/nx-s1-5254160/california-fires-los-angeles-latino-immigrants

01/10/25 12:20 PM

#17862

I guess those Latino immigrants stopped their robbing and murdering monetarily to help with the fire recovery.

01/10/25 12:44 PM

#17863

Will we soon hear from Trump that those migrants weren't really fighting the fires but actually looking for people's pets to eat? What do your sources tell you, Nori?

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My well fed, warm even at two degrees above 0, Bodie.

01/10/25 04:15 PM

#17864