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Nora Skinker (Morton)

Yes, Joanie, the recent bill...passed by the House and Senate and signed by the President... is certainly not perfect (like all bills) but i"d like you to share how Medicare will suffer from it?  Wasn't it in jeopardy long before the bill began?  Also, if the only reason behind the bill is to enhance tax breaks for the very wealthy, why would there be no taxes on tips or overtime? Wouldn't those stipulations benefit the middle class? I think, too, the plan is to remove waste and abuse of Medicaid, so as to restore it and keep it helping ONLY those who qualify.  

Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

Hi Nori, Here is an article that explains how the bill hurts Medicare...https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-pledged-not-to-cut-medicare-but-his-budget-bill-does-just-that-b69fb8d2

Trump is doing everything to destroy "the land of the free" that you mentioned so patriotically. He is throwing people in prison who are not criminals and they get sent to tortuous prisons with no way out. He fires people in governement that don't agree with his policies and puts in sycophants wherever he can. He cozies up to dictators who he admires like Putin and Kim Jung Un who he has love letters from, and not to our allies. Poor Ukraine is left out to dry a lot. Its sad that he is destroying so much of what was built up in this country like civil rights and equal protection under the law. He wants protection just for white folks.He actually tries to help red States and not Blue States.  Love, Joanie

Stephen Hatchett

Did any of you get a letter directly from the Social Security Administration bloviating about the ONE BIG BEAUTIFUL BILL?  I did. Never before have I seen anything like such a political ad put out by a US government agency like the SSA.  

Here's a musical take on  that damnably imoral bill

1079784270727084

Jack Mallory

Nori, if you think you've heard anything more than an infinitesimal fragment of my "bellyaching" about wars during my lifetime you're hallucinating. I've been bellyaching since three days after getting back from Vietnam--May 8th, 1970 at the BCC demonstration against the Cambodia invasion and the Kent State murders. As the BCC Tattler recorded:

As I posted earlier, "In MY army" as old veteran farts stereotypically say, nobody paid any attention to the army's birthday. Didn't even know it had one. Maybe generals knew. Thank god--parades are just a royal pain in the ass for anybody who has to march in one. 

I would have LOVED to jeopardize the entire Iran war by putting it to a Congressional Declaration of War, just as the Constitution requires. And I would have loved to jeopardize every war of my lifetime in the same way. Did you bellyache about any of those wars, Nori? Let's not nitpick about the definition of war--any of those extravaganzas of firearm and high explosive death and destruction, regardless of paperwork. No desire to jeopardize ANY of them? 
 

BTW: those histories of the Vietnam War--or Vietnam unpleasantness, if you prefer--that you've read. Which ones are they, as I asked last week? I hope they all included major treatment of the national bellyaching.

Jack Mallory

Nori has chastised me for "hating" Trump. I corrected her by saying that I hate his ideas, not him. But I must confess, it's hard not to have hard feelings about someone who tells you they hate you. 

I don't consider myself a Democrat, but I certainly usually vote that way. Trump said of Democrats on Thursday, "I hate them. I cannot stand them, because I really believe they hate our country . . ." He offered no evidence for his hateful charge, nor does such evidence exist. https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5385217-trump-on-democrats-who-voted-against-gop-megabill-i-hate-them/

This is supposedly an "American" president. He has expressed interest in being added to the four great, truly American presidents carved on Mt. Rushmore.  https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/06/27/us/mount-rushmore-trump.html
 

Have I missed, in my reading history, any remarks by Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, or Roosevelt stating their hatred for nearly half the voting population of the country? Is Trump a man who deserves to appear with Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, and Roosevelt?


 

Nora Skinker (Morton)

Time will tell whether & where facets of the BBB may or may not hurt us, Joanie. I do think Rand Paul had a viable stand against it but on the other hand: though the bill may add up to $3T or more to the deficit, Joe Biden added $4T. Seems no one does much of anything to change the debt ceiling debacle... just kicking that same old can!  That said, it's a shame the Dems all voted against locking in Trump's lower tax rates of 2017, along with even lower rates for working families. Whew. Close call. 
Jack, Joanie scolds me for ignoring some of Trump's decisions & faux pas! Perhaps my liberal friends would like to ponder their own lack of mention (attention?) to a few things over the years: the border crossings of millions of illegals; housing (in 5 star hotels!) & feeding them with US tax dollars; Hunter Biden's laptop; forcing untested vaccines on Americans;  crushing inflation of the middle class; East Palestine's chemically damaged water pollution; the murders, rapes, robberies committed by illegal immigrants; spending $45M on DEI scholarships in Burma; biological men competing in women's sports; hundreds of thousands of missing migrant children; sending billions of dollars to Iran which no doubt helped to fund Hamas; cleaning up San Fran's streets for visiting CCP heads; spending our tax dollars for trans inmate surgeries; campus antisemitism demonstrations & mistreatment of Jewish students; the shutdown of our domestic energy production which served to embolden Russia; the cover-up & lies by Fauci re the origins/aspects  of Covid: premature releases of repeat criminals by liberal judges; Biden's pardoning of friends & family members; Biden's declining mental health; the embarrassing Afghanistan pull-out where there was an abandonment of millions of dollars worth of weaponry & equipment; a Chinese spy balloon crossing America; drag shows being presented to kindergarteners; free health care to illegal immigrants...and so many more. Joanie, unless you are familiar with my above listing, you are watching & listening to the wrong sources. Most are not criticism... just items in which interested Americans should be aware. And debate. And discuss, JMO
Jay, perhaps Murkowski missed her moment of greatness for good reason. Do you know what she was ultimately faced with? Do tell. 
 

Jack Mallory

A quick glance at your long list reveals no citations, Nori, nothing to tell me where your supposed "facts" come from.  But that saves me the time not spent reading unevidenced allegations, as I've said before. Save yourself time--if you don't have credible sources, don't bother to post. 

********

Parades. Parades are for politicians, or the press, or the parents of paraders. They're NOT for the soldiers/sailors/marines/. . . (what is the generic for what we used to call "airmen"?) who have to march in them. After spending hours on weapons, uniforms, boots, brass, other gear to make it all shine. 

I have NEVER heard a soldier say, "Gee, I wish we had a parade tomorrow!" "Damn, I wish we could give up our free time Sunday to dress up and march around!" "Fuckin' A, I can't think of anything better to do with my time than march in step in the hot sun to celebrate the Army's birthday!" 

I suspect this is one reason for the popularity of the early out program during Vietnam. You've got 6 months still to go in the stateside army after your time in Vietnam is up, to be spent polishing your boots, shining your brass, saluting and saying "sir."  Maybe even parading. But if you volunteer to serve another couple of months in Vietnam you can get immediately out when you get home and skip all that happy horseshit! Take a chance on your life for a little while longer to skip the parades when you get back? You bet!

Thinking about this sent me back to my dad's old copy of Bill Mauldin's Up Front. War, not as seen by politicians or the press or parents but as experienced by soldiers in the field--Willy and Joe, Mauldin's no spitshine, no glory, no glamour grunts. Mud,  misery, danger, destruction, reality. You know you're doing good work depicting the real lives of the infantry when Patton calls you an "unpatriotic anarchist" and threatens to throw your ass in jail! Eisenhower told Patton to back off. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Mauldin)

A couple of examples of Mauldin's cartoons:

Every war needs its Bill Mauldins, and civilians to read them. Parades are fantasies. 

Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

Nori, I believe that Trump has mushroomed the deficit the most and significantly more then Joe Biden. https://www.crfb.org/sites/default/files/media/documents/Trump-and-Biden-The-National-Debt.pdf

I'm sorry you took it as scolding. I just don't agree with your premises. You listed all these things that I feel are not true that Trump is saying. There are not all these killers, criminals that are the proble to be arrested. The vast majority of immigrants are not violent and are being rounded up after being here for 20 plus years sometimes, contributing to our country doing hard work. Its so heartbreaking too how he is breaking up families. So the other points you make I just don't agree are accurate...I am upset about the trampling on Democracy and the Constitution that is happening under Trump...

Love, Joanie

Joan Ruggles (Young)

This seems an appropriate time to announce the arrival of yet another Dylan, my first grandchild, Dylan Young, now 3 weeks old. He's of course beautiful and perfect. As Jack said a little while ago - warning cute ahead!

Yes, Winston Churchill and all, but what a cute mouth! Still searching for what name he's going to call me by.  

Joan Ruggles (Young)

Now that I've gotten the cute out of the way, I have to comment on the BIG BAD BILL (even Nori can't bring herself to call it by the ridiculous name the felon chose.) The cruelty, that’s what I don’t understand. We spent 7 billion bombing Syria, but we choose to cut food stamps and health care for poor people. What did bombing Iran cost us? Why aren't we also bombing North Korea who are close to a bomb......oh I forgot the felon's love affair. How can we call ourselves a "Christian society" that pushes aside the needs of those who are suffering? Nori, do you pray for those who will watch their children die both here and in the countries we've abandoned across the world? I heard Nicolas Kristoff being interviewed after a visit to several African villages in which he asked about the effect of the USAID cuts. In one village a woman watched her child die because there were no longer any anti-malarial drugs to save him. MALARIA, one of the easiest diseases to cure. But people like me got big tax cuts, so I guess it's OK. He also saw a woman hemorrhaging during childbirth who, because of no more gasoline being provided by USAID could not be transported to the hospital by ambulance. Instead, several men carried her the 10 miles to the hospital, but she died on the way. But I got a BIG tax cut so I guess it was worth it. The unspeakable cruelty of the felon, his lickspittle minions in Congress and the MAGA supporters who approve is hard to put into words. Help me with this Nori! Explain the creulty to me!

Jack Mallory

Joan, one reason we're not bombing Korea is that they already HAVE nuclear weapons, maybe 50 or so, and some capability to deliver them on our allies and bases in Asia. A quick Wikipedia search for "North Korean nuclear weapons" provides the evidence for that.

This is connected directly to Iran's motivation for developing a nuclear weapons program-- they can see that having nukes is a good way, maybe the best way, to keep from getting attacked by the U.S. We've used military force in a lot of litte countries over the last several decades, but never one with nukes. The trouble with frequently attacking little countries is that it inspires them to develop more lethal ways to defend themselves.

******

Ok, cute wars!

Deb's two grandkids, about three months old on the left, eight months on the right. That cute chunka baby is the son of a GASP immigrant! 

And depending on what you think is cute . . .  Three or four inch wingspan, it's not really about to dive on me and carry me away.

Jack Mallory

The New American Gothic, by Criselda Vasquez. 
 

Jay Shackford

Beautiful and perfect, Joan. Congrats and enjoy.

Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

Joan, I love the pictures of the baby and especially I love the one of you holding Dylan. Such a dear shot. Congratulations. Its so special to be a grandparent. We have two grandchildren that are already 11 and almost 16...On another happy note, I went with my 50 year old daughter to see Les Mis at the Kennedy Center. It was the best production of Les Mis we had ever seen and were crying away thru a lot of it as we were so moved.

Now, your post next about what's going on with all the cruelty was spot on. People are dying that could have easily been saved because of the brutal cuts . Thanks for writing so well about this heartless administration. 

Jack thanks for your post showing Deb with the cute grandkids...I might have to figure out to post mine too...its a nice break from what is going on today.

Love you all, Joanie

Joan Ruggles (Young)

Oh Nori, your tired old Fox talking points. Hunter Biden's laptop (what was that about?) Why not bring up Benghazi while you're at it? 

"the murders, rapes, robberies committed by illegal immigrants". When are you going to let go of this multi-discredited talking point?

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/debunking-myth-migrant-crime-wave?ms=gad_illegal%20immigrant%20crime_700983500566_8628877148_163578260112&gad_

source=1&gad_campaignid=8628877148&gbraid=0AAAAAC8kUVlZWJlSDLoUhx6p8SphOo7y3&gclid=CjwKCAjw4K3DBhBqEiwAYtG

_9O4bdeecJnd2_rgDuIjBPNx40fPGIqjcZk_r0m3VbUMrgmgBUL6tgxoCCb4QAvD_BwE

"the cover-up & lies by Fauci re the origins/aspects of Covid." When did he stop being your boyfriend?

"the embarrassing Afghanistan pull-out where there was an abandonment of millions of dollars worth of weaponry & equipment."

You know don't you that it was Trump who started the Afghan pull-out? 

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/08/timeline-of-u-s-withdrawal-from-afghanistan/

"free health care to illegal immigrants." I believe immigrants can get emergency care - you wouldn't want people bleeding to death in the streets would you? Even if they are "illegal"? Maybe you would. But the fact is, they don't get government services. No health care, no food stamps. 

https://www.nilc.org/resources/overview-immeligfedprograms/

"Biden's pardoning of friends & family members". You've gotta be joking here. Hey I never thought he should have pardoned his son - but Fauci? You know the felon was going to go after him, so I'm glad he was protected. But at the risk of whataboutism the felon pardoned a slew of fellow convicted felons who beat up the Capitol Police. Hmm, you judge which is more egregious. 

"hundreds of thousands of missing migrant children". What the hell are you talking about here? Hundreds of thousands? Children from where? What migrant children? I guess you're not talking about the Ukrainian children Putin stole. Give us some sources, otherwise this is just an irrelevant declaration. 

Okay I'm wasting my time here. Nori, you've really got to stop just blabbering a slew of random thoughts you heard somewhere and give us some context and sources. No, this isn't an academic treatise, but when your thoughts are so scattered and inadvertent, a source would make them more plausible. I know. It's a lot more work. 😩😩 But without sources, it's all just nonsense. 

Jack Mallory

Thanks, Joan, way beat me to it. I'll follow up with a question, and a couple of data sets from an article that addresses the issue of immigrants and crime. 

Question: why don't we see lies about murders, rapes, and robberies committed by plumbers, or left-handers, or Presbyterians, or blondes? Is it because those minority groups are unlikely to be largely non-white?

Data--also called "evidence":

Sources: this site presents all the sources and data behind these graphics and text explanations for the lack of ANY valid connection between immigrants and increased criminal behavior. https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/debunking_the_myth_of_immigrants_and_crime.pdf

Among the multitude of cited data sources (two pages of small print bibliography) are FBI crime statistics, the National Academy of Science, Criminology, the American Journal of Public Health, the Cato Institute . . . Not your usual scumbag commie liberal sources, as our Deputy FBI director might put it. 
 

WTF, another question: If I found myself making public, false accusations of criminality--charges of murder, rape, and robbery aimed at racial minorities--I like to think I'd ask myself, "What kind of racist bullshit is going on in my head?"

Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

Yes, Jack, I notice its just the immigrants to Trump's group that are called murderers and rapists. Hitler labled the Jews this way and different countries target certain ethnic groups. They want to dehumanize them and have them viewed unfavorably and not deserving of any rights or freedoms. . Trump is happily following this approach. He is an authoritarian who wants power and to punish his opponents. He said recently, "I hate Democrats." Love, Joanie

Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

Nori, you support trans rights in the military and as a former actress you work with people from all backgrounds but I just think you are being fed lies by Trump and Fox News as you repeated the lies about illegal immigrants being murderers and rapists. They are not that as a group. They have low levels of violent crime.  You accuse me of watching the wrong news shows but  Fox was sued for lying about Dominion Voting and paid a huge sum in damages . So maybe you should at least fact check what you hear.  You can go to www.factcheck.org.   They are a top unbiased organization. Love, Joanie

Jack Mallory

Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

Stephen Miller is a real disgrace. I remember too his Uncle is so ashamed that he is his nephew. He is a very sick pathological hater and belongs in a country like Russia or North Korea, or Turkey. Love, Joanie

Nora Skinker (Morton)

Aside to Jay: since you've ignored my Murkowski question, I just want to follow up with what I could surmise about why poor Lisa Murkowski ended up without a 'profile in courage'.  According to several sources (including Politico), she made her decision to vote for the bill because concessions of food-aid programs (i.e. Supplemental Nurtrition Assistance Program), federal health (providing extra financial support for Alaskan rural hospitals), the removal of controversial taxes on solar/wind energy projects for which she had long strived, and she wanted Trump's 2017 tax cut extention, all of which persuaded her.  Shame shame shame on her her her for having a reason besides fear of Trump on her evil agenda!  Sometimes state elected officials and elected federal officials have to make very tough decisions, like cutting international and domestic programs, separating familes due to the breaking of laws and yes, even voting on bills which don't always make them happy. 

Joanie, if our enemies aren't scared of Trump, they GOTTA be scared sh*tless of cute and cuddly Stephen Miller! OY! Also, if I ever alluded to All or even MOST illegal immigrants being guilty of rape, murder and robbery, I stand corrected.  But, if you reread my list, I think you will see that I never said anything like that. I was pointing out your failure to refer to those horrors during the Biden years and before.

Jack, thanks for kindly pointing out that NK has nukes. Saved me the embarrassing correction.

Joan, if you recall the Left called Hunter's laptop "Russia collusion" (election interference lie?") when in fact, it was disturbingly real and enlightening. Cocaine addicts do that kind of thing. I was wondering why no one mentioned it on the forum, but now I know. 

For those who are donating to the sad and agonizing clean up of Texas, Samaritan's Purse and Salvation Army are reputable and easy to find online. Just sayin'

Jack Mallory

Nori, you castigate liberals for not mentioning "the murders, rapes, robberies committed by illegal immigrants . . ." That's a quote from your post #18305.

But you present zero evidence or reasoning that this is a problem that liberals or anybody else should mention. Are there large numbers of such crimes? More committed by immigrants than by citizens, or Trump supporters? How do you know? 

So why suggest a connection between immigrants and crime that you don't know exists? Is it because it's easy for you to imagine these foul crimes committed in large numbers by people unlike you?
 

As I said, if I found myself making public, false accusations of criminality--charges of murder, rape, and robbery aimed at racial minorities--I like to think I'd ask myself, "What kind of racist bullshit is going on in my head?" 

Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

Nori, just because you didn't say all illegal immigrants are murderers and rapists doesn't make it ok because the only mention you gave of them was to talk of illegal immigrants as murderers and rapists. That is what Trump wants us to believe but it is dead wrong. It would be naive of you to think because you didn't say all, its ok to give such an untrue label. Truth is that most undocumented immigrants are not violent criminals. How do you feel Nori about the majority that are being scooped up from restaurants, hospitals, farms, places like home deport ( meant Home Depot but a freudian slip are it is becoming Home Deport) and often be sent to horrific prisons. These are hard working people who have been in this country sometimes for 20 plus years. Trump and Steven Miller and Ice think nothing of the heartbreak and cruelty that hardworking people helping our country are being thrown in detention for deportation.  How about commenting about that because that is going on with the blessing of the Trump Administration. As for Murkowski, I knew that she bargained for a couple of things but that doesn't cut her a pass. Had she voted no on the bill, then it would not have passed and saved a lot of people from being thrown off their health insurance. The people that are hurt the most from the bill are the poor. The rich benefit the most with tax cuts they don't need. There will be many children who will go hungry as a result of the major cuts to food assistance. People will die. Love, Joanie   You can see from the link on immigrants that the majority being scooped up like cattle are non violent immigrants. Also, Murkowski did little for all the other States...Read this below. She could have been like John McCain and sank a very horrible bill but she didn't.  Love, Joanie

https://www.politifact.com/article/2025/jun/24/one-big-beautiful-bill-trump-taxes-senate/

https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-vowed-deport-worst-worst-new-data-shows/story?id=123287810

https://newrepublic.com/post/197481/donald-trump-budget-senate-murkowski-medicaid

Jack Mallory

Good to see concerns inside the military about the ethics of their use against their fellow citizens.  

https://thewarhorse.org/military-conscientious-objectors-interest-surge/?fbclid=IwQ0xDSwLfQ99leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHig3YNwiTjcT3CfDFymqBinRvW-vZ0BnKUbtMlEFR-p5BoulTlQ6P78l2fJJ_aem_Dts5HhDCPtYSF7vnrdpOGw
 

Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

Hey Nori, What do you think about this? The majority of immigrants arrested are not the violent criminals you mentioned...that is a very small number...How about being sent to Alligator Allcatraz for these non violent immigrants, Love, Joanie

https://www.usnews.com/news/u-s-news-decision-points/articles/2025-07-01/alligator-alcatraz-spotlights-trump-immigration-contradictions