Tom Ashcraft

I don’t object to changing the name of the school, but I don’t believe pulling down statues will make a difference.    You can not change the past, only hope we have learned from our experiences.

Tom Ashcraft

In study of Buddha I read this.  Seems like it is appropriate for the times.    “The secret of health for both mind and body is not to mourn for the past, nor to worry about the future, but to live the present moment wisely and earnestly.” – Buddha

Jack Sowers

“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every statue and street has been renamed..... History has stopped.” - "1984" by George Orwell

Mike Miller

With all due respect Jack, in this case history is being revealed.  We were all brainwashed as young people.  The truth, always hard, is now coming forward.  Slavery racism, sexual exploitation of slave women, selling of children away from Mothers and Dads, segregation, lynching, redlining, and hundreds of other asects of our history must be faced and confessed, just as we make our confession to God every week in church.

Howard Barnett

Exactly Mike.  In Bob Wyche's American History courses, we kind of brushed off most of our early history until we got to his main love, drawing colorful maps on the black board illustrating Civil War battles.  I seem to remember being told that the war was more about state's rights rather than slavery.  Reading just one of the Articles of Succession from the states would have shown that preserving the state's right to continue slavery was the entire reason the the Civil War.  Listing all our forefathers who owned slaves doesn't make slavery any less of an abonination.  If we don't teach history as it really happened, then we aren't really teaching history, we are spreading propaganda.  In that case the George Orwell reference is apropo.

Jim Breedlove

I am extremely impressed reading the comments from people I haven't seen in too many years. I am also encouraged by the evidence of reason and civility that I feared had been lost. 

I think it's appropriate to consider the basis of our own beliefs and how those affect others. I thank all who have contributed for their insights. 

My check for supporting the REL webpage is in the mail.

Nancy Carter (Dahm)

Whatever our former and current feelings about the Civil War, segregation, and statues honoring old heroes, I believe that we all support public education, the foundation of our democracy.

The changing of a school name, the removal of a statue from public space, and the vandalism/destruction of public property are three different issues. I’m just going to focus on the first.

We (class of ‘61, our entire generation, and generations before and after ours) owe much of any success we have to the fact that, for the most part, we were educated in a supportive and nurturing environment. I hope that all future graduates can say the same for their educational environment.

I hope that all students in Tyler can learn in an environment and from educators who foster their individuality and diversity, without suffering the distraction of attending a school whose very name some consider an insult.

If a public school is to bear the name of an individual, I believe it should be that of an educator or someone who has had a positive impact on education, ideally on local, public education.  Military bases, Naval ships, or even historical sites, are more appropriate places to honor former generals and military leaders.

Several names of deserving honorees have been suggested in one forum or another. Current students or their parents can surely put forth names of equally deserving individuals. Or, perhaps it is time to consider a more generic (geographic?) name; Tyler South and Tyler North (Southside, Northside?) would allow for additional school names, with little controversy, as the city grows. Rose City High might be appropriate, although Tyler High folks might resent that. I know that others can suggest good alternatives. I have enjoyed reading your comments and have found them thought-provoking.

Anne Botsford

What would Mr. Wyche say?

Jack Sowers

     After my brother Michael indicated that it looked like I was excusing slavery by listing presidents who had owned slaves, I realized that a little clarification of my previous post was needed. By listing past presidents and other historical figures who had owned slaves, I was in no way trying to justify slavery. In the context of the discussion about changing the name of R. E. Lee High School, by listing all those people I was simply trying to show how many things might need to be changed if the solution to history that we don't like is to change names, tear down monuments, etc.

    For example, do we really want to take Washington off the $1 bill and Benjamin Franklin off the $100 bill? Do we really want to tear down Mt. Rushmore because it has Washington and Jefferson on it? Do we really want to rename the cities of Tyler and Houston because John Tyler and Sam Houston owned slaves? And do we want to change the national anthem because Francis Scott Key owned slaves?

     I could go on and on, but the bottom line is history is history, it's behind us, not to be rewritten, renamed, or erased. History is to be learned from.    

Jim Breedlove

I've been thinking about this issue from the perspective of my second country, Italy. This is a civilization that has existed in various forms for more than 3000 years. Over that period there have been countless persons who have done good things and and often the same countless numbers who have done bad. In the end they formed the fabric of our civilization. This cannot be denied; it can only be understood. With the perspective of history we can celebrate the good and acknowledge the bad with a vow not to repeat it.

Mary Joe Carothers (Murphrey)

Washington vs. Lee

We must draw a distinction between out founding fathers who wrongly believed in slavery as the norm and those who actively attempted to destroy the nation in order to preserve a way of  life that was economically based on  the subjugation of one group of people for the benefit of another group of people.  My ancestors owned slaves, but their mistaken understanding does not justify the continued veneration of their heroism and sacrifice. It is time to speak up for the equality that  was promised in our Declatation of Independence.

Jim Patterson

Slavery

The evil of slavery is a universal institution that has existed for millenniums and its victims are NOT confined to any one race.  In fact, it existed thousands of years before the birth of Christ Jesus.  Unfortunately, there always has been and probably always will be evil, corrupt people who don’t care about treating others as they would like to be treated and use their time and resources to enslave others for money, power, and sex, the three motivating factors for the political “ruling” class.  Slavery is still alive and well throughout the world.  I refer you this article in the Washington Post about modern day slavery at this link https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/10/17/this-map-shows-where-the-worlds-30-million-slaves-live-there-are-60000-in-the-u-s/.  According to this article there are approximately 30 million slaves worldwide and they are primarily located on the continents of Africa and Asia.  However, I would submit to you that there are many others who are not classified as slaves but are de facto slaves such as those who live in Cuba, China, Russia, Venezuela and in other places ruled by tyrants.  When the Founding Fathers established our Constitution and they stated that all men were created equal, they were most likely referring to the difference in the rights of Commoners vs Nobility, but definitely planted the seed with that statement that ALL men and women were created equal by their Maker.  Not that they were all equal in ability or income, but they were all equal in possessing the inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.  These rights were given to them by their Divine Creator, not by elected officials.  Because the signers of the Constitution knew well what tyranny is, they did everything in their power to separate powers and make it very difficult for tyrants to come to power.

The first major nation to abolish slavery was England around the year 1841.  When we look back at biblical history, we read where St. Peter said “I perceive that God is no respecter of persons”, (Acts 10:34).  This was roughly 1800 years before any nation made any attempt to free slaves, but the concept was embedded into the U.S. Constitution, and it creeped into Western consciousness that slavery and suppression are not morally right.  It took 1800 years for mankind to begin to come to begin the attempt to abolish slavery, but the actual thrust for change came from Western civilization and from 1841 until today, 179 years later, the concept of freedom continues to expand from its Western roots.

The attack today is not only on our Founding Fathers and our Constitution, but on Western Civilization as whole which is considered by Marxists, and those they dupe, as an evil concept.  In the past 179 years, as you can see from the global map there is less slavery in the West than in any other part of the globe.  There is no question that Westerners brought African slaves to the Western Hemisphere which were sold to them by other black Africans some 500 years ago, but Western civilization is the only one, that I know of, that has made any honest attempt to alleviate slavery.  Would you consider people living under Communism, Fascism, or under other forms of tyrannical rule to be free? 

The United States fought a Civil War over this issue and lost 650,000 mostly white lives in this conflict.  The idea that somehow people whites who live today, some 7 generations later, should pay reparations to blacks is beyond my comprehension.  This is racism at its finest.

There is ample opportunity in our great nation for all to prosper and be respected.  The idea being promulgated that America is “systemically racist” is a BIG LIE and it has been told so often that many believe it.   My question is “in what countries do you find better opportunities for all races?”  There is still plenty of work to be done to make life better in the United States, but let’s not turn our backs on the most positive social experiment on the planet ever.

Jack Sowers

Hi Jim. What a great article! Obviously you spent a lot of time researching it and it's well-written. I agree with the points you make, and we can all hope for the best. But the so-called "cancel culture" has taken root and is flexing its muscle as evidenced in Portland, Seattle, Chicago, and elsewhere. To me it's not a Republican vs. Democrat issue, and I think Trump is mistaken when he says it's Democrat-run cities. You make the valid point that it's Marxists and anarchists, criminals who are trying to destroy our government and turn the USA into the USSA (United Socialist States of America). As Abraham Lincoln said, "All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." Pointing out the dangers of socialism and the freedoms enjoyed in this country is doing something. Thank you. Jack

John Bentley

Good job, Jim! Thanks for taking the time to research and post.

Mike Miller

To Jim Jack and John  As a history profesor for 40 years and a minister for 50, I'm not going to refute your essays point by  point. Simply:  Jim, better a few unruley people among those asking for justice than a mob of Fascists setting the stage for a unconstitutional coup in the most wondeerful nation on earth.  Jack, best wishes,  John, I'm sorry we never really met or spoke in high school since we were both headed for the ministry. I've worked as a campus minister for the Episcopal Church, did my internship in the Church of England and have many Episcopalian collegues.  Never, ever,have I heard anyone  who was priest of the church  defend the flag of hatred and slavery. If you keep  and treasure your flag, please keep it out of sight,. lest you should cause anyone to fall.   Rev Michael N Miller, PhD

Tom Ashcraft

It is very rewarding to see and read comments from my class mates.  Although we were all Robert E. Lee Rebels and each of us still holds a sense of Pride in our school and class,  it is heart warming to read the comments from such a diverse group.  I am sure that I am not in error in my belief that our class ( which was segregated) produced a group of individuals who understand the importance of diversity.  I am proud to be part of such a fine group of Americans.   Tommy Ashcraft

Jack Sowers

Hey, Tommy, it's great to be able to see and read anything at our age, huh!  

Jim Patterson

Hi Mike,

I am glad to hear from you.  Where are you living these days.

Do you believe that the United States is sytemically racists and yet is still the most wonderful country in the world?

I didn't see where John said anything about defending a flag.  To which flag are you referring and where did he say anything about a flag.  

Over the years we have all matured and see things differently than we did when we attended Robert E. Lee High School.  I have thought many times about, when a teenager, how interesting I thought Mr. Weich's class was as he explained all of the Civil War battles.  But in the last 25 to 30 years I have come to the conclusion that it would have been much more educational for us to have studied the political arguments made on both sides between the years of 1835 and 1861.  Please correct me if I am wrong, but weren't all of the States considered sovereign but still under the supreme law of Federal Constitution?  

The point I was trying to make is that this country and Western civilization have done more to alleviate slavery than any other civilization known to the history of man.  Is that not a true statement?  What are you thoughts about the existance of slavery today?  Do you not believe that there are around 30 million slaves today of all races?  If not, why not?

Best regards,

Jim

Mike Miller

Good morning Jim   It is great to hear from you.  I have great respect for you as a person and I'm sorry that we have to use our reconnection to discuss these pressing issues.  Let me clarify my response. First, the reality of institutional racism is born out over the years by 1) legal  and de facto segregation 2) a duel wage and opportunity system 3) labor and voting repression 4)  police violence and unfair justice system 5) 400 broken treties with Native Americans 6) unfair banking system 7) " redlining"  to keep people out 8) racial sterotyping and ridicule 9) terrorist killings and lynchings10) exclusion from business opportunities and franchises and much more.  The reason I said American is the greatest nation is that we have tried over the years to correct these things, but have not yet rooted them out of our national life.  Most schools are still segregated, most small black businesses have gone under for lack of banking support, there is still violence ( Charleston church massacre ), and, having taught for two years in a black school, I know personally that there  are still many issues of structural injustice,   We have been able to change, especially in recent years, but there is much left to be done.  Dr King once said in a letter to white congregations " About justice, Jesus wasn't kidding:"       I agree with your statement that slavery around the world is still a critical and tragic reality.   Finally, I meant no disresepect to John Bently, who I'm sure is a fine man of God,  But in a previous letter he said some things about the Confederate flag that I thought were inappropriate, especially for a minister.   I wish you well Jim and safety  and health in your life.  Mike.

Howard Barnett

Systemic racism has at it roots, racism, something, as a melanin challenged individual, I have never experienced personally, but have experienced through my wife, a person of brown persuasion.  She was "adopted" illegally from a hospital in L.A. and, until family DNA testing came along, knew nothing about her ancestry.  During her life she has been claimed by gypsies, American Indians, Indian Indians, Jordanians and, of course, Mexican Americans.  It turns out that most of her genes come from Portugal with a smattering of Japanese by way of Indonesia.  Throughout her life she has experienced both subtle and overt racism.  For example, when she about five and climbing on a Houston bus with her adopted father, the bus driver told her that she would have to ride in the back of the bus.  The driver escaped a trip to the emergency room by a heart beat (if you'd met her father, you would understand), but that incident stuck with her as well as being denied admittance to a public swimming pool in Canton.  The point is that kind of mind set still exist, note the white suprimacists rallies in the past years, and it manifests itself in institutions, most visibly these days, in voter suppression. Voter ID laws, crowded polling place in minority neighborhoods, shortened early voting, purged voter rolls and harrassment  during voter registration drives are so overt as to be shameful.  On a more subtle level, minority voters suffer  a death of a thousand cuts.  By the way, my wife, Dorothy, graduated from UT, was accepted as one of the first Michener Fellows at UT, wrote three books, founded and edited a poetry journal, taught college creative writing and English and earned an advanced degree from Pacific Lutheran University.  She never acheived the level of Houston bus driver, but still...

Tom Ashcraft

I hope I downloaded this correctly.  It demonstrates the military’s respect for soldiers of any color.  It is a sad piece but it shows the respect the military has for its troops. Tommy

Mike Gross

Last week Congressman, John Lewis, cruised the Edmund Pettus bridge for the last time. This time it was in a horse-drawn carriage pulling his flag-draped casket. It was quiet different from the first time.

Edmund Pettus was a white supremacist who served as a general in the confederate army and a leader of the Klu Klux Klan. John Lewis, a civil-rights warrior, who almost died on the bridge in 1965 when he was assaulted by Alabama state troopers.

Now there is a petition circulating to change the name of the bridge. In my opinion John Lewis would not want this. The story of John Lewis must be told must be told and not hidden as if it did not exist. People must learn exactly what happened in Selma, Alabama, in 1965. Keeping the name of the bridge is not an endorsement of Edmund Pettus. It now represents the truth of the American story.

Symbols are powerful.  A bridge named after a man who inflamed racial hatred is now known worldwide as a symbol of equality and justice.

Douglas Warner

I would like to propose a toast in memory of Robert E. Lee High School. She was commissioned in the Fall of 1958 and served until the Fall of 2020. RELHS served scores of administrators, teachers, staff and thousands of students during her sixty-two year tenure.

RELHS was decommissioned because some claimed that her name was an insult.  Perhaps so; and I for one have no desire to offend, debate or wax philosophically.  However, please allow me to give credit where due.  RELHS gave this old man cherished memories that echo through my mind and taste good.  All that was really important to learn was awaken during my youthful years at RELHS.  While I yield to change I shall always cherish my years with you at RELHS.  So, my toast: Lest we forget, to Robert E Lee High School, to you and to memories…

Jack Sowers

Nicely done, Doug, and so true. Thanks

Sandra Perryman (Valerio)

Yes, a toast with love and memories.