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07/04/24 07:59 AM #17211    

 

Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

Thanks for the Happy 4th wishes Glen. Happy 4th everyone. Love, Joanie

07/04/24 11:34 AM #17212    

 

Jack Mallory

Props to all--Joan, Joanie, Jay, Nori, Stephen, Robert--lots of disagreement, but nobody calls anybody an idiot! See how easy it is? 

********

Not everything in the woods or on the water is furry, cute, or graceful. Or on my deck railing:


 

That rock behind the fishing spider is as big as two fists. Spidey's body is an inch long, legs span three inches. I did NOT measure him with a ruler!

 

Spidey could eat this American toad. Probably would if given the chance. You could put the toad down on a dime, it would still have room to spread out. 
 


 


07/04/24 11:46 AM #17213    

 

Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

Jack, I enjoy your pictures, this time of the spider and the toad. Thanks...we have our own National Geographics photographer on the forum. Yay. Love, Joanie

07/05/24 01:08 PM #17214    

 

Glen Hirose

Jack IMHO,

That looks like a very large "Wolf Spider". If it is then note they don't spin webs to snare their prey, they don't eat wolves, and they don't howl at the moon either. They do hunt at night in packs though, and can sense fear in humans which makes them very aggressive. Lucky you didn't get too close; a single wolf spider in the daytime means it could have been rabid. 

 

 


07/05/24 02:58 PM #17215    

 

Jack Mallory

The only spider I claim to know well is Charlotte, Glen, so I've got no particular expertise. I use the magic of Apple Photo's ID capability, which tells me it's Dolomedes tenebrosus, the fishing spider. Can bite you, but like a bee sting. The Apple app has been pretty reliable on things I can ID. But they're both big-ass spiders!

Today as we drove up to our put-in we saw first a white-tailed deer and shortly thereafter a BIG bobcat, the size of a Labrador Retriever. And I DO know Labrador Retrievers! No time for a photo. I don't think the bobcat was after the deer . . . 
 

While paddling we were told by this mama loon (no question about the ID) that we were TOO GODDAM CLOSE! 


 


07/05/24 03:31 PM #17216    

 

Jack Mallory

Oh, and looking back to the 4th of July five years ago, Trump's Independence Day celebration of American history.
 

The Continental Army suffered a bitter winter of Valley Forge, found glory across the waters of the Delaware and seized victory from Cornwallis of Yorktown, our army manned the air, it rammed the ramparts, it took over the airports, it did everything it had to do, and at Fort McHenry, under the rocket’s red glare, it had nothing but victory.”

The bitter winter of Valley Forge (1777-1778): The army manned the air? Rammed the ramparts? Took over the airports? Ft. McHenry, built in 1798?
 

Who needs to have their mental acuity checked? 


07/05/24 08:31 PM #17217    

 

Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

I just heard tre ABC interview with Joe Biden. I thought President Biden was great and showed that the debate night was a bad night and he spoke intelligently of all the serious issues that he has worked on as President and intends to continue to work on in the next term. . Love, Joanie


07/06/24 07:34 AM #17218    

 

Jack Mallory

I almost never read anything about sports. Not sure I’ve ever read anything about sports connected to the Vietnam War. This is one of the very few things about the war that has ever brought me joy. John, you might like this. 

Sorry, WAY too long to copy and paste!

 

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5596918/2024/07/01/lilia-vu-olympics-golf/


07/06/24 09:32 AM #17219    

 

Jay Shackford

 

 

"Strong and wrong beat weak and right everytime."   Past President Bill Clinton.

Unfortunately, I saw or heard nothing in the ABC interview last night that would change my mind.  President Biden appeared to be in a strong denial mood.  We will see.  But my gut tells me Joe Biden will step down by the end of the coming week.  BTW, calls for him to step aside having nothing to do with his record as President.  Everyone agrees he has done an amazing job.  

 


07/06/24 09:51 AM #17220    

Clifford Elgin

I find it disturbing that ever since the debate the mainstream media is overwhelmingly focused on Biden's performance with almost no comment on Trump's mulitple lies.  While I am concerned about Biden's health I am more concerned about Trump stating very little factual information while continuing his standard lying, name calling, and bulling.

 

Kip


07/06/24 10:02 AM #17221    

 

Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

I agree with Kip. There is very little talk about Trump who lied during the entire debate...maybe 30 lies at least. I thought that Biden did fine during the ABC interview. I want him to finish the job. I still think along with Alan Lichtman, a great predictor of elections for the past 10 years, that Biden has the best chance to beat Trump. Of course he will need all the doubters to rally round him.  I understand why many are questioning him after his awful debate but he is fighting back and showing that he is ready for the fight. . A house divided against itself cannot stand. The chaos that could ensue if he is dumped would not help for a winning ticket. Haris has her supporters and not picking her would allieanate the black vote, the strongest democratic constituency. However, picking her would not give confidence to many who are not so enthused about her. Biden did a good interview and had good rallys, the last n Wisconsin on July 5th. I still feel our best chance is to stick with Joe. Love, Joanie

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-in-political-crisis-holds-wisconsin-rally-ahead-of-pivotal-abc-news-interview/ar-BB1psljF


07/06/24 11:41 AM #17222    

 

Jay Shackford

Joe Biden’s Blind Spot

 

By Maureen Dowd

Opinion Columnist, reporting from Washington

July 6, 2024

 

King Lear gave up power too early. President Biden will give it up too late.

And that is Joe’s tragedy.

Unlike Biden, Lear had a loyal lord who was willing to tell him the truth. When the old king disinherits his good daughter and divides the kingdom between his maleficent daughters, the Earl of Kent tries to tell Lear he’s bollixing everything up:

“What wouldst thou do, old man? Think’st thou that duty shall have dread to speak, When power to flattery bows?” Lear, swayed by his bad daughters’ sycophancy, screams at Kent, “Out of my sight!”

Kent urges the king to “see better.”

Some eyes get plucked out in “Lear,” but the play is really a lesson about inner blindness, the way power can occlude the ability to see yourself, and the world. A lack of self-knowledge in a leader can lead to ruination.

And that is where we are with President Biden. His raison d’être for running, at 81, is stopping Donald Trump, a mendacious scofflaw who will become even more incorrigible with the egregious decisions of his radical Supreme Court and his own age spiral.

 

But Biden’s contention that he alone can beat Trump was never true. And now he has lost some moral high ground because he hid the evidence of cognitive deterioration.

Trump is the master con man, but Biden is giving him a run for his money.

He, his wife, his vice president and his longtime aides worked hard to conjure a mirage where everything is fine in Bidenworld.

That mirage vanished with the debate.

We don’t know now who is running the country. We only know who shouldn’t be — the president and the former president.

Republican lawmakers cravenly failed to stop Trump after Jan. 6. In the days after the debate, most Democratic lawmakers have shied away from being honest with Biden.

We now know that Biden aides have painted over every scene with a Panglossian brush, creating a picture at odds with what the rest of the world was seeing.

 

They burbled with praise for the president’s back-to-back-to-back performances in Normandy, the splashy L.A. fund-raiser and the Group of 7 summit in Italy. Odd moments of vagueness with the president, when people grabbed his arm to orient him, were dismissed as misinterpretations.

But I was in Paris that week of the Normandy anniversary, and some Macron advisers and European officials were alarmed at Biden’s foggy mien, at his moments of not seeming to know where he was.

I feel like a hostage to Joe’s ego — and the chip on his shoulder. I can have a president fighting for women to control their own bodies as long as I don’t care that Biden isn’t sharp enough to serve until he is 86.

He can handle an Annie Leibovitz photo shoot. But he has to stall for two weeks before having a live White House news conference to reassure those freaked out by his brain freezes at the debate — and his acknowledgment afterward to donors that he “almost fell asleep” at the lectern.

As Reid Epstein and Maggie Haberman reported in The Times, the president told the Democratic governors on Wednesday night that he needs to sleep more and work less.

Alex Thompson of Axios, who has been breaking news of top aides’ stage-managing minutiae — Biden’s sleep schedule, his orthopedic shoes, his shift to a lower door with a shorter staircase to board Air Force One — revealed that the president is “dependably engaged” only from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m.

Yet, on Friday, the Biden campaign outlined an “aggressive travel schedule,” trying to prove he can still handle the job.

Biden is in denial and few are willing to tell him, with his every syllable being parsed, that he is sliding to even more humiliation.

The Democrats should give the public what it wants. Voters have said they’d like fresh, exciting voices and a broader choice than Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.

Senator Mark Warner is trying to corral other Democratic senators to tell Biden to be the bridge he promised to be.

Let’s open the convention and check out all the Democratic stars.

As for those who say the nomination should be Harris’s by right, James Carville thinks competition would give her a chance to gain the cred that has eluded her as vice president. Even her booster, Representative James Clyburn, said that if Biden passes the baton, there should be a mini-primary before the convention.

And in this election, many think that it would help to have a candidate who can’t be cast as part of the coastal elite.

For decades, Biden was loquacious. But his voice has receded. His staff told him to curb his logorrhea. Later, the inner circle let him do very few interviews and no challenging ones. Biden began sometimes falling into a soft mumble in meetings, or trailing off. The crimped word count is a sign that it’s time to stop charging forward.

Biden told George Stephanopoulos of ABC News on Friday that he would get out only if the Lord Almighty told him to. When asked how he would feel if his defiance threw the race to Trump, Biden said: “As long as I gave it my all and I did the goodest job as I know I can do, that’s what this is about.”

But it’s not, not when Biden says that Trump is “a one-man crime wave” and “the biggest threat to our democracy in American history.” It’s time for the president to “see better.”


07/06/24 01:52 PM #17223    

Clifford Elgin

There's an old old statement to the affect that those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it ---

"some (dictator) may hereafter arise, who, laying hold of people of popular disquiettudes, may collect together the desparate and discontented and, by assumiing to themselves the powers of government, may sweep away the liberties of the continent like a deluge."    Thomas Paine

"When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross."  attributed to Sinclar Lewis

"Dictators, having acheived absolutisn, lose their sense of proportion.  Each success leads to ever expanding aims, while their insatiable desire for their own permanence drives them in the end to put self before their country, and to adventure as the sole means of maintaining their hold ... as time went on, he appeared to me to become more and more unreasonable and more and more convinced of his owen infallibility and greatness."

Sir Neville Henderson, British Ambassador to Berlin, 1937-1939

Bertrand Russell on the rise of Fascism in France:  "First, they fascinate the fools.  Then, they muzzle tthe intelligent."

 


07/06/24 04:25 PM #17224    

 

Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

 Thanks Kip, Nice to hear about the dangers of Trump instead of why Joe Biden has to go. I heard Biden during the ABC interview and at rallies. He sounds fine and I feel ok with him continuing to lead this country. Love, Joanie

 


07/07/24 03:21 PM #17225    

 

Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

I just heard a commentator Stuart Stevens of the Lincoln Project on Morning Joe say that the last time an incumbant President lost the Presidency with the economic numbers like the ones under the Biden Administration was 1988. He made a strong case to have Biden continue in this race. Stuart goes on to say this is probably the most successful President since World War II who put forth a coalition and got bipartisan bills passed. He said Biden needs to just go forward and prove that he is capable and do his job and people will calm down..I hope so..Stuart went on to say this kind of blood in the water panic isn't helpful. He said in spite of the bad debate, he has been a very successful President and we need to rally around Biden.....Love, Joanie


07/08/24 08:37 AM #17226    

 

Joan Ruggles (Young)

Some random, unrelated thoughts and obeservances. 

Like Joanie, I love Biden too. I even wanted him to be the choice for president over Obama who I thought was too young. Imagine if Biden had become president back then, followed later by Obama. What a different place we would be in. But that's fantasy.

I'm thrilled with the job Biden has done since becoming president. The truth is: After the debate, Axios, citing current and former Biden aides, reported that Biden appears to have limited hours in the day during which he’s fully engaged. This is dangerous. Our country needs a fully engaged president 24 hours a day. 

Biden appears not willing or able to step down. But he needs to be convinced. It will require nothing less than former presidents, members of congress and other top Democrats to do the job. If Omama, Clinton, Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi talked to him............ 

But if he can't be convinced, then I agree with Bill Mahr who said after the debate “I have said before, I will vote for his head in a jar of blue liquid. And after last night, it's time to get the jar,” 

Do any of you remember how appaling it was to hear Nixon say, "If the president does it it's not against the law." I remember thinking, he's lost his mind!  But now the Supreme Court agrees with him. What a world we live in.

Another sobering thought. When Regan left the presidency (with dementia) as the oldest president ever, he was exactly our age.


07/08/24 09:21 AM #17227    

Clifford Elgin

Have you noticed that ever since the debate the main stream media has story after story about Biden and his capabilities to serve and virtually nothing about all the lies Trump told along with his lack of anything specific about his policies going forward.  Beware of Project 2025.


07/08/24 09:26 AM #17228    

 

Jack Mallory

"I will vote for his head in a jar of blue liquid"

Maybe we should get T-shirts made?

 


07/08/24 04:52 PM #17229    

 

Jay Shackford

Say It Ain’t So Joe

By Dead-Center Shacks

 

Remember the campaign of 2016 when Donald Trump would call Morning Joe and talk to Joe and Mika pretty much uninterrupted for 10 or 15 minutes straight.  This happened on a regular basis for a couple of months. Joe and Mika loved it.  It raised their ratings and gave them an inside scoop on their competitors in the very competitive world of morning television.  It also inadvertently made Trump more acceptable and likable among undecided voters.  That was the real tragedy of the whole thing. 

 

This morning, Joe Biden copied a page out of Trump’s playbook, calling Morning Joe live to defend his record, restate his stand on remaining the Democratic nominee and challenging any of those so-called “elites” who question his ability to lead the country to bring it on and challenge him for the nomination at the upcoming Democratic convention in Chicago.   He flatly rejected any idea that he would voluntarily step aside and let a new generation of Democrats take over.  

 

Look, most everybody on this forum, including myself, loves Joe Biden as Joan pointed out in a very clearly written post earlier today.   His record of accomplishments is really remarkable — bringing the nation out of a 100-year pandemic, reviving an economy, creating 15 million jobs, erasing student debt for 5 million Americans, enacting a trillion dollar infrastructure program that is just now paying results that Republicans are bragging about and taking credit for even though they voted against the bill,  enhancing health care with $35 insulin for seniors, rebuilding alliances with our foreign partners in NATO and elsewhere  and making American democracy good and honest again. And if Joe Biden remains the nominee running against Old Bone Spurs with 34 felony convictions, again as Joan and Bill Mahr noted, we will all give Joe Biden more money and vote for him, including myself.

 

But that’s avoiding the fundamental issue confronting Democrats and all Americans dead set against another Trump presidency.  Is Joe Biden the candidate with the best chance to defeat Donald Trump?  That’s the issue we confront today.  

 

The fact that Biden’s family and his top staff have circled the wagons and rallied support behind him should come as no surprise.  Think about it from a top- or even mid-level staff perspective. Their careers are riding on a second Biden term. Many have been with Biden for decades.  Two years into a second Biden term will open the door to numerous opportunities in politics and private sector.  If Joe were to bow out now, all those opportunities would be lost forever.  

 

Also, Democrats need to realize that we are running behind in this race and that playing it safe   with Joe Biden as our candidate could be a losing proposition.  We tried that in 2016 with Hillary (it was her turn as we coronated her as our nominee without exploring alternatives) and see where that got us.  

 

Last week during a CNN interview, Representative Jim Clyburn of South Carolina who saved  Biden’s campaign in 2024, said that if Biden decides to drop out of the race, the party should hold a mini-primary between now and the Democratic convention in late August.  

 

Think about it.  It would open up the nomination to a new generation of leaders —Vice President Kamala Harris, Governors Gavin Newsom of California, Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan, Wes Moore of Maryland and Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania, Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey, Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg (perhaps the smartest guy on the Biden team) and others who may want to throw their hat in the ring.  This is the future of the Democratic Party.  It would scare the shit out of Trump and his followers.  It would add excitement and energy to today’s lethargic politics that is a turn off for many voters, particularly young voters and voters of color.  People would actually tune in and pay attention to the debate and watch the convention.  It would be a competitive race, reflecting democracy at its very best.

 

But for this to happen Joe Biden has to voluntarily and gracefully step down and pass the baton to the next generation of Democratic leaders.  

 

On Cliff’s and Joanie’s issue of the media failing to focus on Joe Biden’s record of accomplishments and ignoring the many lies from our convicted felon on the stage.  Let me say this about the media.  Everyone expected Trump to lie, lie and lie.  And he did exactly as expected. If he didn’t lie repeatedly, we would think he was ill. Lying is the generally accepted expectation for Donald Trump. The one lie that really stood out for me was when Trump was talking about abortion and claimed that doctors were actually killing babies after they were born.  Really?   

 

But for the media as well as for still undecided viewers, the debate was about one thing: Does Joe Biden have what it takes to serve another term as President? 

 

Since the June 27th debate, nothing much has changed: Donald Trump has been playing a lot of golf at Mar-a-Lago and raised a lot of campaign contributions to pay his legal expenses and Joe Biden and his team have scrambled unsuccessfully to reverse the impression he left us with 10 days ago.  

 

 


07/08/24 06:17 PM #17230    

 

Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

Hi friends, I have read your posts and just don't agree. The people voted for Biden in the primary and I still think he has a large group that want the man they chose to be the nominee. He is doing well post awful debate fighting back. I feel confidence in him.  He has made good efforts to right the ship after his awful debate. Biden has made such remarkable decisions as President to help our country and has a good team around him and a back up of Kamala Harris if needed, so I think he should take on Trump and I believe in him still. I just don't think opening it up in a primary or even just going with Kamala Harris would give us the best chance to win. Yes, I do love Biden but if I thought he wasn't still the best choice to beat Trump, I would say so. Love, Joanie


07/09/24 02:44 AM #17231    

 

Joan Ruggles (Young)

The Stephanopoulos interview was supposed to repair the listing ship. First Biden when asked if he'd watched the debate, answered "I don’t think I did, no" How is it possible that he's not sure whether he did or not? And more importantly why didn't he?

He was asked if he knew how badly things were going for him currently. 

Biden’s response, in its entirety: “The whole way I prepared, nobody’s fault, mine. Nobody’s fault but mine. I, uh — I prepared what I usually would do, sitting down as I did come back with foreign leaders or National Security Council for explicit detail. And I realized — about partway through that, you know, all — I get quoted, the New York Times had me down at 10 points before the debate, nine now, or whatever the hell it is. The fact of the matter is, what I looked at is that he also lied 28 times. I couldn’t — I mean, the way the debate ran, not — my fault, no one else’s fault, no one else’s fault.”

This was a rested Biden without a cold. This is worrisome. 

Again, I love this guy. But please turn in the car keys and let someone else drive!


07/09/24 07:21 AM #17232    

 

Jay Shackford

Joe Biden won’t win; 

Here’s a plan that will

 

By James Carville—The ‘Ragin Cajin’

Mr. Carville is a veteran of Democratic presidential campaigns, including Bill Clinton’s in 1992, and a consultant to American Bridge, a Democratic super PAC.

July 9, 2024/The New York Times

 

Mark my words: Joe Biden is going to be out of the 2024 presidential race. Whether he is ready to admit it or not. His pleas on Monday to congressional Democrats for support will not unite the party behind him. Mr. Biden says he’s staying in the race, but it’s only a matter of time before Democratic pressure and public and private polling lead him to exit the race. The jig is up, and the sooner Mr. Biden and Democratic leaders accept this, the better. We need to move forward.

But it can’t be by anointing Vice President Kamala Harris or anyone else as the presumptive Democratic nominee. We’ve got to do it out in the open — the exact opposite of what Donald Trump wants us to do.

For the first time in his life, Mr. Trump is praying. To win the White House and increase his chances of avoiding an orange jumpsuit, he needs Democrats to make the wrong moves in the coming days — namely, to appear to rig the nomination for a fading president or the sitting vice president or some other heir apparent. He needs to be able to type ALL CAPS posts about power brokers and big donors putting the fix in. He needs, in other words, for Democrats to blow it.

We’re not going to do that.

We’re going to nominate a new ticket in a highly democratic and novel way, not in the backrooms of Washington, D.C., or Chicago.

 

We’re at the stage where we need constructive ideas for how to move forward. Representative Jim Clyburn and the Times Opinion columnist Ezra Klein have spoken about a Democratic mini-primary, and I want to build on that.

 

I want to see the Democratic Party hold four historic town halls between now and the Democratic National Convention in August — one each in the South, the Northeast, the Midwest and the West. We can recruit the two most obvious and qualified people in the world to facilitate substantive discussions: Barack Obama and Bill Clinton. They may not represent every faction under our party’s big tent. But they care as much about our democracy as our nation’s first president, they understand what it takes to be president, and they know how to win.

Town halls — high-stakes job interviews for the toughest job in the world — would surely attract television and cable partners and generate record numbers of viewers. Think the Super Bowl with Taylor Swift in the stands. The young, the old and everyone in between will tune in to see history being made in real time.

How will potential nominees be chosen to participate in the town halls? There is no answer here that will satisfy everyone, but hard choices must be made, given the tight timetable, and I think leaning on the input of former presidents makes good sense. So I would advise Presidents 42 and 44 to select eight leading contenders out of the pool of those who choose to run, with Ms. Harris most definitely getting a well-earned invite.

I believe the vice president would be a formidable opponent for Mr. Trump. She has spent the past four years crisscrossing the country and the globe, serving the American people. She has a hell of a story — one that more people should know. She stood up for ordinary Americans against big banks. She locked up sexual predators. You want the prosecutor, or you want the criminal? Not the worst question to put to the American public this November.

 

Maybe Presidents 42 and 44 can make the candidate selection even more democratic by consulting the nation’s 23 Democratic governors in the town hall selection process. Governors deal in the practical, not the theoretical. But I’m not a details guy. I say we leave it up to 42 and 44.

To be clear, we have a lot more than eight Democrats who could beat the pants off Mr. Trump. But if we don’t limit the town halls to a manageable number of people, we’ll get sound bites, not substance.

Town halls will give Americans a fresh look at Ms. Harris and introduce them to our deep bench of smart, dynamic, tested leaders. In addition, Democratic delegates will get to further grill and stress-test these leaders in public and private meetings before a formal vote of all the delegates at the Democratic convention.

A word about those delegates: I trust them to reach a majority decision at the convention after a public and substantive process like this one, and you should, too. Sure, we’ve got some folks on the fringes, God love ’em. But an overwhelming majority of Democratic delegates are pragmatic patriots. They work hard and care deeply about their communities and our country. They come from small towns and big cities and everywhere in between.

I’m not worried about our delegates. They’re in it to win it.

I’m not worried about our talent. We have a staggeringly talented new generation of leaders.

 

I’m not worried about the money. Americans will be fired up by this open process, and many are already fired up to beat Mr. Trump.

I’m not worried about time. We have excitement and momentum on our side.

And our opponent? The one born with a platinum spoon but no moral compass? The pathological liar? The felon? The predator found liable for sexual abuse? The wannabe dictator? The Putin lickspittle?

I’m not worried about him, either.

It’s been an agonizing time for those of us who think President Biden more than earned a second term but isn’t going to win one. But now we’ve got to move on.

Although my friend Rahm Emanuel usually gets credit, I’ve heard more often that it’s Winston Churchill who is said to have advised, “Never let a good crisis go to waste.” A superdemocratic process — the opposite of what Mr. Trump and his MAGA minions would do — is how we’re going to honor that wisdom in our own “Will democracy prevail?” moment.


07/09/24 12:45 PM #17233    

 

Jack Mallory

WARNING! No politics in this post!
 


 

Don't know which will be ours, but it doesn't much matter. 


07/09/24 02:49 PM #17234    

 

Joanie Bender (Grosfeld)

Those pups are so cute.  So nice you will be getting one Jack.  Love, Joanie


07/11/24 11:52 AM #17235    

 

Jack Mallory

 

Been waiting for this one. Almost every year there's a Blanding's Turtle in the riverine environment around us, but hadn’t seen it until the other day. Hope, for his or her sake and the sake of possible Blanding's turtle babies, there's another one!

The yellow throat is the ID giveaway. And many of us hope to emulate the BT: 

“The Blanding's turtle is of interest in longevity research, as it shows few or no common signs of aging and is physically active and capable of reproduction into eight or nine decades of life.[9][10]” Wikipedia

Well, not necessarily the reproductive capability part. Strictly speaking.

 


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